0:00 Intro: Can struggle make us stronger?
1:02 Iceland, harsh environments and resilience
2:56 Easy life now, hard life later?
8:40 Should GCSE exams be timed?
15:34 When should adults step in?
24:32 Are we making learning too easy?
28:58 Pressure, shame and perfectionism
35:51 When perfectionism stops us trying
40:38 Building resilience without losing empathy
47:42 Finding the right level of challenge
54:43 Does education build independence?
57:21 The instant gratification generation
1:02:48 Going back to slower technology
1:03:59 Are we rescuing children too quickly?
1:15:48 Parenting, consequences and autonomy
1:18:42 AI as a tool, not a replacement
1:24:25 Don’t remove the consequences
1:24:40 Outro

Intro

I’m a deep believer that there’s positive as well as negative trauma. None of this like beauty is possible without all the harshness and all the things that the environment has to go through to be able to look this incredible like diamonds basically. Yeah. If that’s not applied the right way that pressure and it’s too much then it doesn’t become enjoyable. I had a lot of internal pressure. I was so self-motivated because I wanted to avoid shame. Do you think we’re rescuing children too quickly? So, you want the resilience to be enough so that it molds you into a person that can deal with whatever life’s going to throw at you, but also not harden your inside so much that you can’t offer empathy. We want a hardened shin so when we do get kicked we can absorb it cuz you’re still absorbing the impact but then you’re getting back up. The Education Lounge podcast.

Iceland, harsh environments and resilience

So I was in Iceland back in March. Different planet. Different planet. Yeah. We’re saying Yeah. Different planet. like the scenery is absolutely incredible, but it’s such a harsh place where it’s so harsh to like to live. And um I mentioned we were doing this drive through all the ice and snow and stuff. I think I I mentioned to the guys I was with that none of this like beauty is possible without all the harshness and all the things that the environment has to go through. It has to go through all that difficult stuff to be able to look this incredible like diamonds basically. Yeah.

So that leads us on to what we were going to talk about today which is the like how much how much do you remove obstacles from a child’s like learning path or even even adults because we have to do this with staff members and things like that. So how much do you get involved? How much do you let them go through? When do you pull back? When do you remove the obstacle? When do you push them through it?

Open it. Jeez, that’s a parenting and it’s ruling. It’s an everything. It’s an everything question. It’s an everything thing. Yeah.

Easy life now, hard life later?

But like I I feel like as humans, mammals, we are programmed to take the path of least resistance. Yeah. But then that sometimes leads to more resistance. Yeah.

I’ve I’m sure I’ve shown this in so many other podcasts, but the the whole, you know, there the two guys with one’s climbing the mountains early and the other one’s like taking the easy path and it’s like so it’s easy life now, hard life later, hard life now, easy life later.

The problem is is that we get old. That’s the problem. So motivating the youth to understand that. Oh, it’s not easy. It’s not easy because I do get I do get their perspective.

Well, yeah, I’ve got a graft in my youth and to retire and enjoy. Whereas, so I’m in a position where do I pay my mortgage off early and work really hard and then chill or do I just pace myself, which brings its own stress because then you still have to you pay more and you pay for longer and or do I just do what my dad did, which was like not have lunch and not have a day off for 14 years, but then he paid his mortgage off for 14 years and now he’s so much freedom.

But then I like looking young and being young and I like going on holidays. But then when I go on holiday, I have to think, right, do I go on holiday with my family, make those memories, or do I take that money and just chuck it into the mortgage and pay off a whole chunk?

No, you want to pass you want to you don’t want to pass down of the fully paid off. That’s it. Because then you just get a tax. Surely you want to pass down the debt.

Then we need to have a conversation cuz I did not know that you passed down the debt. Yeah. Why would I want to do that to my Because then your kids don’t get taxed on on the property. Yeah. Oh, the inherent no inheritance. Yeah.

Otherwise, if they take Hang on a minute. If there’s a mortgage still on the property, they don’t get taxed on it. No. Cuz it’s debt. Well, they don’t get taxed on the debt. No. No. The more debt you have, the less the government take 40%. If you pay off your entire house and then give it to your kid, you lose half of it.

Well, after the the tax break. It’s 40%, isn’t it? Yeah. Well, after the tax ban. Yeah, but the tax ban is what? 500 that something like that. Something like that. 500,000.

Down the debt. My poor kids. But actually, it’s saving the money in the long saving them money and they get property.

Dude, you guys are so knowledgeable. I need to hang out with them. Yeah. So, I guess it’s a completely different topic, but I’m going to be having a few conversations today.

Well, you have um because I’m gonna inherit my dad’s house and that is in a Victorian house. Beautiful. Yeah. Paid off. He’s paid off. It’s all paid off.

It’s like if you have um the life insurance policy in a trust because obviously like when you have a mortgage or something like that. Yeah, I have a life insurance. Yeah. And you put it in trust and then if like it’s it’s way more tax efficient than having it in your own name.

But don’t worry, like I’m not I’m not advis. So let’s say I pop my clogs and so the money that I would normally go to my beneficiaries goes into a trust instead. Yeah. And but and then you then you make or like you know your your kids the uh was it the beneficiaries beneficiaries of the Yeah.

Why does no one Why does no one tell you this? Because you’re not meant to know this stuff. It’s only for rich people.

Well, you like it it to to be honest though it’s like fairly it’s more complicated that way. So like you always you you’d go to financial advisor to actually get like tell me what to do especially if you got like complex financial affairs like you should always.

Well, no I don’t. I have a mortgage and I have a a life a life insurance and and the the CIC and all that as well. But you you know I mean I’m hoping we don’t need to reintroduce cuz last couple episodes at least you’ve been on Neuroink CIC links links below all of that. Yeah. Yeah.

So, um I’m going to bring it back because because this is maybe have maybe we should have a podcast on you know what I was thinking the other day. Um I spoke to my stepson and Issa and I said would you guys do a podcast cuz we don’t hear from game. Yeah.

And they actually said yes they would. Obviously we’d have to bring it in. Yeah. I mean there were there were some GCSE kids a couple years ago that said they were going to come on and do they never did.

So, oh, I have a plethora of kids that will be on. So, and we need to start hearing from them. We do cuz it’s always us talking about this stuff.

Should GCSE exams be timed?

So, can I jump in though because we’re talking about resilience and grit. Yes. Yeah. Go on.

So, the the thing that I want to bring up is timed exams. Okay. because I don’t think the GCSEs should be timed.

But then you’ve just made me think about diamonds in Iceland. And you’re right, but they they they they only occur with going through hardship over time.

But the last time you went to your GP, did you ask him how long he completed his science exam? He didn’t. No. Or did you just care that he had the knowledge?

Well, they need to do it in 10 minutes, don’t they nowadays? So, so I don’t know. No, I think doing things to a deadline.

Well, there’s like deadines. I think the deadline for GCSE is unreasonable because the level, especially with the English language one, they’re expected to have historical context, author context, writer knowledge, as well as knowledge of the plot and memorization.

It wasn’t that bad when I did my GCSE English language and literature exam. No, I’m going back. I’m not going to say how long I’m going back. It’s a very long time. I’m going back that I did my GCSEs.

Um, but did it make me a better? No. The the the quality when I went on to I did A levels like a lot of people, but at university the quality of the and the pressure on the research.

You can still apply pressure, but research and then having to present a thesis at the end of it or Yeah. But you still have a deadline, don’t you? Yeah. But it gives you an extended time to do.

Deadlines are definitely very very good. Yes. But then they help make things happen. But I just think the GCSE ones are unreasonable given that the pressure is augmented but the timing to complete said pressure has not.

And you’ll get an elite of kids that can do it. But then what about everyone else? Are they not good enough?

The active recall how quickly they can yeah summon up the information. That’s a different it’s different types of.

I think it’s very difficult to replace tests. Ultimately, you need some objective measure of how your child does. And then I think with English, there’s there’s always objectivity problems with it because they’ve found that there’s a big variance in how examiners grade um specifically like English language papers, that sort of thing.

But it could be a whole grade difference between one exam and another. It’s like 10 marks or something, which is significant. Yeah. Um, so that is a problem specific to English. But I think there is a value in knowing your child’s test performance.

But oh, I’m not saying remove the but how do you feel about children coming in and then just being told especially for maybe for more the humanity subjects than the maths. I don’t know.

But how would you feel about your child going into their GCSE English exam and the exam and the invigil is saying because the rules have been changed, right? You have the whole morning you if you want toilet breaks that that has to be monitored but you have the whole morning to sit down and think and record because for me I would rather see the knowledge than worry about someone rushing and then me not getting an actual realistic view of what they can do.

Yeah. Yeah, I don’t know. But I think how quickly you’re able to do that in some respects is part of the intelligence, I guess.

And I don’t think timing is part of intelligence, but I think I think Well, it depends cuz if you if you think about processing time like Yeah. especially neurodivergent, they need processing time. Yeah. Yeah.

That I understand why they get all of them get the extra 25% cuz JCQ is just is it JCQ? They’re notorious for not for trying to avoid giving the extra 25% when they can.

No, as in I I think life itself is not a speed test. No.

But a real world example, Issa didn’t didn’t even though all of his teachers were saying he was due that 25% processing time because he’s autistic. Yeah. Um they didn’t give it to him.

Now he should have got it. But in college, the minute they looked at him, looked at his file, they managed to get it for him straight away. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz he had specific problems with.

And I I’ve worked with kids as well, and I’m like, there’s absolutely no way they can do it in like is fairly obvious to me, isn’t the intelligence is there. He can absolutely do it. But the minute you put time pressure on him, he goes blank.

Depends what you’re trying to test because, well, if you tested him on Michael Jackson or, you know, airplane engineering, then he’d be fine. But English language, some aspects of science, it’s the pressure.

I get bored in. Well, like to be honest, I find the time too much like so I I mean I’d actually say okay that’s probably a good suggestion if they have like a day to do the exam and then I can be done in like half an hour or whatever or 45 minutes and then leave.

Yeah. Yeah. That would be I’d be great. That’s brilliant for me.

Although you find that most kids will finish but they just feel like Yeah. Okay, now I can actually concentrate on and the brilliance that we would see emerge from that. I think we’re missing a trick.

Yeah, I think I’m going to bring it back because this this I think we should actually talk about this. Okay. Like as a as a actual episode.

Okay. As in carry on or change or change back? Well, I’m going to go back to the question. Okay. Um but you know, I do think No, so resilience. It’s part of resilience.

Yeah. But I do think this specific topic should be like yeah like timing and exam should be like there you go. We’ve got another topic topic.

I wanted to ask a couple of questions. Go for it.

When should adults step in?

And the central question is what if our job as teachers, tutors, like the companies that we run. What if our job isn’t to always remove struggle but to sort of guide and help children move through it?

I have a story and it’s a real story. It’s ongoing. So, I’m going to be very careful. You don’t have to name names or anything. Just No, no, no. I will not.

But there’s a a mother of an adult child. The adult child went through a nasty first breakup. So, first boyfriend, stayed with for a fair few years, then split. Always the worst one. Yes.

especially when it’s an extended period of time because you don’t have experience of I don’t know actually I don’t want to diminish anyone else’s experience if they’ve had multiple breakups but for this particular person it’s it was horrific.

she re now due to her I wouldn’t say due to her social circle but her social circle I get it they want to pull that person out take them out so weekends out distract it’s a distraction so you’re not sitting with your pain um and I’m not too sure sure if I agree with sitting with your pain but we can discuss that later because it’s all part resilience and grit.

But anyway, this person has now fallen into class A drugs. So, the mother is watching this child and she has to be careful because this child’s an adult.

Technically, the the illusion of control is is is exactly that, an illusion. But as a parent, it doesn’t matter how old your kid is. like how do you just sit there and watch them indulge in class A drugs which is also having an effect on so they’ll sleep all day.

They’ll go to work quality of work isn’t great or they’ll call in sick days. So you know the norm that the stereotypical um knock-on effect of drug taking is starting to rear its ugly head.

It’s not completely you know infiltrated her life yet but you could see the the starter of it.

So she said to me, “If I tell her that I know, I could lose the relationship and therefore you’ve got no connection at all to monitor at all. If I report where she’s getting it, I could endanger her because we she doesn’t know the drug dealer.”

Mhm. Yeah. She doesn’t know the circumstances in which she’s getting the drugs. So I could bring her harm and lose the relationship.

But then again, if I do it anonymously, I could just bring her harm, which is a risk either way.

Or I could just not do anything and let her get it out of her system in the hopes that it doesn’t end up killing her.

Because the thing is if it’s class A drugs, it could start off with one and then very quickly progress to another where she wants to experiment.

And and she said, “I do get it. She was with her boyfriend early on.” So they didn’t she didn’t have that single life going out, that freedom.

So now all of a sudden she’s all about the freedom. But I thought her freedom would mean go on holiday, you know, you know, or, you know, travel or, you know, maybe change your job, cut your hair, dye it pink, you know, something else that brings a kind of hit of dopamine.

So, going back to your question, what does she do?

I don’t know. I think if it’s a life and death thing, it’s probably a different story. You’ve got to.

But is it though? What’s the decision she makes? because she has all those options in front of her. And the same as your question you have as a parent, when do you pull back? When do you involve? When do you.

I think you you I think you get involved if it’s going to help rather than hinder.

But then the help there’s always a cost. Cost. There’s always a cost. Yeah.

So you’ve got to choose which one is the which one’s the worst outcome.

So I was discussing this with my partner yesterday and he said to me I probably go for the one where um I would report it and I said yes but if she’s in a house that gets raided and she’s part of that. Do you see what I mean?

So it’s really it’s a difficult one.

So, but I mean you’re talking about resilience agreement and this is the far end of the spectrum but it’s it’s for me the par parenting doesn’t parenting doesn’t end.

So where do you so the thing that I’ve started doing with my kids Ara and Isa started slowly giving them autonomy over their schedule and over their friendship circles and also over their food and cooking.

So, like Ara decided I made dinner, but she decided she was going to make, you know, one of those pasta in a not pasta in a mug, but the one that you just add a bit of milk to.

It’s processed and it’s not very Essentially, it’s a pot noodle. Yes. Pasta. It’s a pot pasta.

And the thing is though, what I liked was that she said, “Mom, I’m going to make my own dinner.” I liked that cuz I thought, “Hey, hey, as she developed that, that’s great. It’s less work for me.”

But then what she decided to make was not healthy for.

Every everyone needs to go through that though. It’s like at uni I was like I mean I don’t even know in so much so so much stuff packing rice and pasta and but but then you sort of I did cook as well.

So I I guess if you give them the knowledge there was less probably less awareness of how to eat. Yeah. Even when we were even for us back then. Yeah. There’s a bit people weren’t talking about quite as much, but also at that age your body’s able to process Yeah. more. Yeah. More basically.

So is um I see at that so in that particular situation, she’s taken autonomy in doing this thing. I wouldn’t say no, don’t do that.

No, I didn’t. I just because I just kind of went, “Oh, can’t you just boil actual pasta and just chuck a sauce in it?”

But then you could also you could you could uh make the first I don’t know the first few experiences of her cooking for herself and turn into a negative thing whereas you just let her go through.

Absolutely. Which is what Yeah. I did I did say to you know how to boil pasta but I’ll leave it up to you.

So she cracked on made it and so that sort of stuff. Yeah. No. So that sort of stuff I’d let them work through.

There’s two very different um situations. One is like potentially life or death. One is pasta. Pasta. Yeah.

So some of it is communication skills as well cuz you can you can maybe indicate in some way that oh I really like it when you cook. I don’t know you you say in different way I really like the fact that you just decided you were going to sort yourself out.

You know it’s positive reinforcement is what you need.

Or you could go oh no and you go okay no I really like that you’re cooking. Why don’t I really like when you cook this thing?

Oh, she makes a a mean mac and cheese. Yeah.

And then you say, “Oh, look, I’d like to get on in this, too.” Like, that that’d be nice.

And then you sort of It’s like kind of tricky, but positive reinforcement. Yeah. Like I get it.

And let’s And isn’t it funny how positive reinforcement works, but human beings have got a natural negative bias. I mean, that leads on nicely.

Are we making learning too easy?

Why do adults instinctively want to make learning or whatever it is easier for children? Because I see most people don’t want to see them go through difficulty.

But it’s the difficulty that the adults have been through that is making it able for them to make it easy for the children if that makes sense.

Like is it easier though? I find that I’m going to I focus on the GCSE for a sec. That’s not easier. That’s harder than when I did it.

If you asked me to go back in time and have all my collagen back and be 16 again, as tempted as I would be to look youthful, I wouldn’t want to be 16 again because I wouldn’t mind being 21 again.

I thought uni was awesome because you could pace yourself. But this the GCSE and the A levels was just horrific. Yeah. Yeah. And so that’s probably the hardest that’s the hardest bit. Mhm.

And so I don’t know if I agree with that. Are we look Ara’s intuition 10 till 4 every Saturday? That is not me making it easier.

I mean she’s agreeing because she wants a particular type of university. Mhm.

So then she has to put her money where her mouth is. And in order to get said particular type of university, you have to be willing to do what everyone else is not willing to do, which is 10 to 4 on a Saturday and a bit on a Sunday.

I think grit and resilience works well when you’re doing it together.

So when my kids are working and revising, I tend to be working with them. Not revising and work, but working.

Um, and when they’re off, I tend to be off. And when they um but I mean I have that luxury but I think when the resilience and the is done together misery loves company.

I showed them that look I’m miserable as well. I’ve got to get this email report blah blah blah done. Don’t want to do it but I’m here with you sitting in the misery.

And then I actually said to a mom and people are not going to agree but I just said the la the next two years are the junk food years.

I do if Ara is doing six cuz you know some of these kids you saw Issa as well. Issa there were times where he was doing six seven eight hours a day and I had to tell him to stop.

So whatever he wanted, whatever Ara wants, ice cream, popcorn, pizza just to make that journey a bit easier, I’m just going to give it to her for the next two years.

I know it’s not I think it’s like good brain food but with any amount of stuff like and activities they’re all it’s okay to like for instance they’ve got tiger moms that sort of thing.

The problem isn’t so much with filling your child’s schedule. It’s more the external pressure that people apply.

So like I don’t think it was ever the case like I enjoyed being busy. I I think kids do enjoy being busy. They enjoy like having their time filled in some way, but it’s more but teenagers.

Yeah. No, it’s true. But they Yeah, it’s probably because the it it depends on their routine as well.

Like but generally I like being busy. I was like I every day every week I was doing stuff. Although that is me but it’s more the external pressure because I found.

when you say external pressure what do you mean so it’s either pressure that comes internally so from yourself or from other people so your parents or it could be like a coach if you’re doing if you’re joining the team.

if that’s not applied the right way that pressure and it’s too much, then it doesn’t become enjoyable. So, so that that’s what I.

Pressure, shame and perfectionism

So, I spoke to you about bicycle neurons. They don’t exist, by the way. This is just my terminology.

So, I’m a deep believer that there’s positive as well as negative trauma.

I fell off a bike when I was seven into a rose bush and I was picking thorns out of my body for like a month.

It was painful, but I still got back on a bike because even though the event was traumatic and I think nearly everyone has a has a trauma inspired bicycle story, but we still all enjoy it.

Most of us, you know, and we still, you know, but especially if it was down a beach, you know, or something like that, you’d still enjoy the ride. Maybe not riding through South Woodford or whatever, but you see what I mean?

that the the actual activity people tend to still do it, but it’s it’s a trauma, but it’s a positive trauma because most people carry on doing the thing.

So, I’m like, I had a lot of internal pressure. I was so self-motivated because I wanted to avoid shame like and guilt as much as I could.

that came from external cuz even though my mom and dad they they never had to tell me to study, I was one of those kids like Issa that just did it and overly did it because I I was heavily avoiding their disappointment.

Even though they would have probably been proud of me anyway. Well, not if I came home with you, I’m sure, but if you know if I they would have been proud with mediocre results, you know, but I wanted to overly ensure that they were proud of me.

So, and this is going to sound my dad is a bus driver. Well, was a bus driver. He’s retired now. He was a bus driver 44 years.

And he wasn’t the wealthiest in the family. And I wanted to give him the academic success of his daughter so that he had that. Mhm.

You know, cuz there’s cultural pressures and stuff.

and um and I actually became one of the most highly qualified in the family, which is not a bragging thing, but I wanted their migrant parents.

So, I wanted to them to be able to, you know, have that where they perhaps didn’t have loads of money in the bank, but they had a daughter who was highly successful.

So, I wanted to be able to gift them that.

So, that again, but that was probably that’s never something they’ve communicated. That’s never that is internal pressure.

But there was my dad is of Chinese descent and so they do have this education education until your eyes bleed kind of gene. Mhm.

So I remember one day um he’s going to hate me for saying this but I got 98%.

Do you remember supplementaries? Are you guys too young for supplementary science? It’s now triple science cuz before uh we had triple science I think. Yeah.

So before it was yeahitional as well plus supplementary science which essentially covered everything. So that’s that’s how old I am.

Um anyway and I got 98% on a test and I was so happy and he was happy but then he said well if you got 98% what happened to the last two?

Yeah. No I I identify with that. Yeah.

And now I laugh about it but at the time I remember feeling so hard done by so hurt.

There are some things when I look back at my life both from an emotional perspective, physical perspect perspective, educative perspective that I could have done without that actually caused a lot of harm, psychological harm.

But I don’t regret the overall pressure of my life because it’s turned me into a person that’s well I would say I’m overmpathetic. I over understand. I don’t always get the same level back. I can relate with that.

But it’s made me and I don’t I don’t mean to say this in a an egotistical way because there’s really but it’s made me a really nice person.

And the reason I know that is because my kids come to me, my students come to me, parents come to me, my friends come to me, and I’ve got a really strong bonded network.

That is not an accident.

And I think had I not gone through all of that hurt and pain and struggle, it wouldn’t have made me the person I am today, more importantly, the mother I am today.

And that’s one thing I will brag about, like I’m a fabulous mother. And I think more moms should say that about themselves.

Cuz there’s like a taboo, isn’t there? You know, don’t don’t brag about your parent.

No, I’m I’ve got such a good relationship with my kids. And they’ve been rail moments where they’re off and on.

But because I have used what I call soap bar parenting, which goes back to kind of judging each situation where when do I grip so the bar doesn’t slip, when do I let go so it doesn’t slip, when do I kind of hold it steady? Mhm.

Um, but the problem is with that is that every single moment, every single conversation, every single word that comes out of my mouth, I literally assess before I say it.

But that makes me very tired at the end of the day.

Like there is even if it’s like a a haphazard conversation, I’m still always thinking what neurons am I growing in your brain when I say that, when I act like that, when I do that, or when someone else in the house is behaving or acting in a certain way.

But perhaps then maybe I’m not allowing them to build resilience and grit. I I don’t know.

I I do let them like experience conflict and you know like like any household you have conflict you have Mhm. but it’s I’m always assessing which ones are permanent damage and which ones are just them going okay that’s just part of life.

When perfectionism stops us trying

Yeah. I mean as a cuz I grew up as an only child. Yep. That can be interesting because you was bored. You’re literally like with adults all the time.

Well, I think you’re mine was the complete opposite. mine and I think one negative aspect of my childhood was probably like the fact you’re kind of wrapped up in cotton ball all the time because like oh you’re the only child like there’s kind of a high expectation.

So you always have this this has to be done for this and we’ll do this for him and that kind of thing.

And it sometimes actually is paralyzing because you Especially as my mom such a perfectionist like so anything that I did often wasn’t good enough. Yeah.

So, and I mean like I’m fine now like as in it it doesn’t but I know that it’s still there like as in I do have like a little voice.

Oh yeah. Me too. It’s like it’s like making the bed as well. Like I’d make the bed, should remake the bed, that kind of thing.

And then that sort of invalidates the effort that you do put in. Yeah.

It’s not the best way because I actually still do that. Like my partner, my husband will make the bed and I will go and remake the bed. I don’t want to, but it’s just Yeah, I get it.

But but it’s like it I didn’t I look back on it and I’m like, why is it get to me so much? Like like why did that why do I think about it now? M.

and it’s like yeah it it did sort of make me think it really really put me in a place where I really struggled to like do stuff like take action to do things because I was just like I don’t know if it’ll be good enough.

So I was like what’s the point?

Like my mom’s got this saying and it was like uh if you’re going to do something um do it 100% or it’s not worth doing.

So I just always land on the side forget I’d always land Yeah. I’d always land on the fact that, okay, well, I’m not going to do this because like if I can’t do it 100%.

Then there’s no incentive here.

Like, so I’d always be like, okay, I’m only going to do what I’m good at.

Um, but that kind of has a negative impact and it narrows your field. Yeah.

Um, and now it’s like very very difficult now to actually although like I’ve done tried my best to kind of not have that, it’s still there.

Like it it’s always there cuz it’s always following you around.

Um, no matter what you do when you’re you’re programmed a certain way.

Um, yeah. You don’t develop any new neurons. You don’t learn anything. You don’t.

Yeah. But you do, but they’re just negative ones. They’re just hardwired to.

So every time you have a new opportunity, a neuron will grow because it will be thinking, well, I can do this, this, and this.

And then but then the old neurons will kick in and be like, no, you can’t. Yeah. Yeah. More of a.

Building resilience without losing empathy

So that’s the res that’s the resistance, but it’s the wrong type of resistance.

What we’re saying is, say, for example, you you’ve got to study really hard for an exam.

That’s studying and getting your brain to learn new things under that sort of pressure forms resistance.

But then when you come out of it, you go, “Right, well, A levels, bring it on. I’ll be all right.”

Well, even though they’re harder, but that’s not the point.

The point is it it gives you, you know, like the selfbelief, isn’t it?

What’s those? Is it It’s not monks. It’s the um there are certain type of warrior samurai.

No, it’s not the samurai. I think it’s in Thailand.

But there’s a certain type of martial arts where they rub the shins constantly.

Well, Morai, is it like that? I don’t know which type, but they rub it and they and it but they rub it with like really hard. Yeah. Really hard.

So then when the shins get kicked, they don’t. Yeah. Muay Thai. Yeah. Is that Muay Thai?

Right. So I guess that’s what we want really.

We we don’t we we want a hardened shin so when we do get kicked we can absorb it cuz you’re still absorbing the the the the impact but then you’re getting back up straight away.

Um, so you want the resilience to be enough so that it molds you into a person that can deal with whatever life’s going to throw at you, but also not harden your insight so much that you can’t offer empathy um or you can’t be understanding towards other people in your life like your family or whatever.

So it’s I think it’s a case of the right amount of challenge and the right type of challenge.

but some of the things that I’m seeing and some of the things that I’ve experienced there are just some ch like no one needs to go through abuse although many of them come out the other end and use their stories.

So Mela won’t mind me talking about her cuz she her story is quite p public but Mela is the founder and CEO of um global women so worldwide uh networking for women club although men we have global men now as well.

She publicly talks about her stepfather and the abuse she suffered at his hand, but she laughs about it now and she just and her mom keeps telling her, “Can you stop?”

Cuz she’s still married to her stepfather.

So she’s, “Can you give him he’s old now, he’s sick, he’s not going to be here much longer. Can you like back off a little bit?”

And Mela just happily says, and this is a statement she said many times, “I want a return on my investment.”

Mhm.

So if I had to go through that, let me make that part of my story and a part of the reason I’m so successful.

And I think now I have stories of abuse that I won’t go into that are personal to me. Um, and I can’t talk about them. Mhm.

But I often think, yeah, if I was going to have to go through that, then let me have a return on my investment.

But there’ll be consequences which I still in my 40s are not willing to live with because I won’t be the only one having to live with them.

Yeah. Not so Yeah. Don’t abuse kids basically. Yeah. Don’t abuse.

Um Yeah. No, I think obviously I think anything that causes people psychological and physical harm that’s significant like basically that’s the point where you step in as a parent you’re like all right stops and there’s there’s a boundary there like you have to.

but what about name name calling okay so in a house in most houses families normal families there’s no abuse but there’s certain sentences like that I hear from a lot of don’t be so stupid.

I I hate that word stupid. Hate it because they don’t realize how much that child is internalizing that.

And so I was looking at Gary Vee. He had a post the other day and he said in a nutshell, if you want you can’t protect your kid from social media, from bad influences, the only thing you can do is build their self-esteem up so much that it doesn’t affect them.

that it doesn’t attract them, that they don’t need to search and look for other ways of becoming validated.

And I thought, geez, that makes a lot of sense.

So, going back to resilience and grit personally, there’s one side of my brain that thinks, “Oh, come on. How many people in your life are going to call you stupid? Deal with it. Like, don’t cry about it.”

But then the other side of me, the teacher, the mother in me is like, but I don’t want my kid to feel stupid, especially from my from hearing it from me.

I don’t want that. I don’t want them to have that resilience.

But then when they go into the workplace, there’s going to be plenty of people that make them feel stupid and whatever.

So then what? That’s a simple.

So the word stupid. How would you handle that?

In what sense handle?

So if you were a father, would you ever even let’s say your sub was 13, 14? If it’s 17, oh, don’t be so stupid. Would you ever use that word?

Never. No.

Would you see that as pause? But some people would argue, especially some people from Cockney East End would say, “Oh, I mean, when you go into a building site, the words they call each other, you’re like, “Oh my god, you don’t want to.”

Yeah. I don’t think they’re as bad as stupid.

So, you think stupid is worse than say like a certain word that begins with C. Like the way they call each other that.

Yeah. Cuz that’s they they say in an endearing way. They’re not saying it because they’re actually thinking that.

Whereas I’ve heard parents though say it irrespective what to kids. Yeah. Older kids, not younger ones, but older kids.

Well, in a in a bad way or an argument where you Yeah. And the word stupid.

But but but the kid doesn’t the adult kid doesn’t seem to be phased by it because it’s just the lingo in the house.

Yeah. If that’s the norm, then fine. But if it’s like a a different household where that word is never said, then obviously it’s more there’s a lot of context with this, isn’t it?

I think do you know what I think there’s more context with the word stupid than with some swear words.

That’s what I mean. You can you can uh use certain swear words in like like Australians. That’s like saying mate. It’s the same depends on the context, situation, a lot of other stuff.

Finding the right level of challenge

So what do you see as examples of examples of you know a child going through life of res of times where they will experience challenge? What what what are the challenges for you child has to go through?

Again it’s all down to the situation but I can just bring it bring it back to that um zone of proximal development thing.

I’ll put it back up here again.

There’s like three two rings or three rings.

Inside ring is just past what somebody’s able to do.

And then the ring outside of that is past what someone is able to do but too difficult for them to ever complete.

For people to be able to progress and learn and all this stuff, things need to be just outside of their current comfort zone. Right. Right.

Yeah. But not so far as to be unattainable. Completely unattainable.

And you could literally apply that zone of proximal development to any of the situations that we’ve spoken about so far and it would make sense.

Yeah. No, it absolutely makes sense.

I’m already thinking about my life thinking. I think that’s one of my struggles is I tend to go, “Yeah, I can do that. Yeah, I can do that. Yeah, I can do that.”

And I give myself too many things to do.

But is that that’s that’s number that’s number of things. That’s quantities.

That is way out of my zone of comfort.

Clearly as an ODHDR I so they’re a collection of things all within the green zone of just being out of my zone of proximal development.

But because there’s so many of them they might as well be over here.

Yeah.

When you’re like managing when you’re like managing a team it’s really important to bear in mind those things cuz like you need a little mental map of each person on the team and you go okay what do they know? What can they do?

And then what’s outside of that zone and where do they need training where I need to actually directly tell them that thing or or not.

So you do the same thing with kids as well, students.

Well, we try to but the the curriculum and the expectations don’t operate within the zone of proximal development in my opinion in that case with with like has to be a one-izefits- all then doesn’t it for like we spoke about before.

Well, it has to be a Yes, I I agree that you can’t cater the complete curriculum to individual needs.

I mean, you’d be unless everyone had their own personal tutor like the kings and queens where they just were tutored by one person until they’re, you know, they they qualify.

But what we can do and what isn’t being done, I mean, I have yet to read the new EHCP um changes that the government have released.

So, you’ve got this generic curriculum. It covers exactly that general certificate of secondary education.

It covers that. It’s supposed to be generic because you you have to decide in general and these my kids often say to me, why do I have to learn?

And I say because we don’t know what you like and if you’re honest with yourself, you don’t know what you like because you haven’t been exposed to everything.

So the the GCSEs are supposed to expose you to lots of different things, lots of different subjects. Yeah.

So that when you get beyond it, it might trigger an interest. It may not, but in general, it tends to trigger an interest and you think, “Ah, I’m going to go away and do that afterwards.”

But unless you’ve been exposed to said subjects and said interest, you’re not going to know.

Then what the government is saying is we need the population to have a basic level of education and that’s what the exams are for.

But I do I do believe that the GCSE should include some some coursework a little bit more than they do already, especially for like text.

No, they took them away though. Yeah, they took it away, but they should put it back cuz it was actually it helped those children.

So that this is what I mean.

So there’s a it’s a general certificate of secondary education. The curriculum is generic.

So what we need to do as teachers and what the government needs to do is put resources into giving children, the ones who need it, the the ones who are having trouble with access that bit of extra personal attention so they can access it or make the resources lots of different you know.

because at the yes teachers make lots of different resources but actually we’re the ones making them whereas if the government looked and thought right autistic children let’s do a bit of research let’s talk to the professionals how do they learn English how do they learn maths what do they you know and then create some resources around that.

you guys have done it you’ve got resources so if we can do it at a base level don’t tell tell me please tell me the government are able to do it.

of course they are and they’ve got a general view because they’re having all of this data fed into them but they’re not they’re they’re too busy with their agendas.

Like I think the reform party if they became come into power, one of the things he said is that we have to root out parents who take advantage of um their children being special educational needs.

Well, that is a really blanket thing to say cuz you’re just.

Yeah, you can’t be blanket, I think.

Have you got an autistic child? Because I certainly know I Yes, I am taking the mix.

If my child is due or qualifies for disability benefit, I’m going for it.

Why? Because that will pay for tuition when he needs it. That will pay for extracurricular activities that de develops his brain up until he’s 25 so that he can function better in the real world.

That will perhaps pay for special pens or whatever. I’m using it for his disability.

But how dare you make me feel like I’m taking advantage where I’m Britishborn. I’ve paid my taxes. So have my parents and uh if my kid needs a bit of your help, I’m going for it.

And I would say that for all parents.

So yes, you need to take advantage.

Does education build independence?

I do think with like so with an education system is to the primary aim is to get people ready for the workplace essentially.

That’s the that’s the thing.

And yet year on year you have people in business saying okay like the younger generation aren’t really equipped for work.

And I kind of think it’s not actually anything to do with the subjects. It’s it’s more a mindset thing.

It is a mindset thing cuz like we have this problem with like some of our stuff like generally because they are quite young. They’re even younger. Yeah. Like some genie.

Um, I don’t think it’s so much knowledge based or any of these things are knowledge based, but I do see a massive gap in terms of sometimes self-esteem and confidence to do things.

Say something really horrible and I mean it in a nice way, but yeah, basic common sense.

Yeah. But that that but sometimes that is okay.

There’s an inaction thing that results from low self-esteem.

So like I see it like as in I’m I’m like okay like it’s not so much that they don’t know what to do or can’t do it but they’re they’re trying to like it’s actually quite similar to a lot of the students.

like the students need confidence and but they need the confidence and the independence to be able to think for themselves.

And if that’s not got across in any way and it hasn’t formed part of their development, if they’re just like literally on an exam treadmill because many of them are very smart.

They don’t have the space to to develop life skills because everything is about the exam.

There’s so much level of study.

The instant gratification generation

I don’t think it’s just that though.

But the thing but boomers there’s a reason boomers are more successful.

It’s because in the 80s they were at work.

I was left at home and expected to make my own toast, make my own breakfast.

And I just was given the space to play on the street to go, “Oh, that didn’t work. Ow, that hurt.”

You know, I was going to say it’s societal because you have to think about and there’s the co generation as well. Yeah. Which is probably what there are a lot of them.

Um, but like with everything that we have in the world now, everything’s immediate gratification.

Yes. So, it’s the Amazon generation, I call it.

You just call up or you you go on your app, you order it and it’s there the next day. Yeah.

Like it like think about even like the early parts of our childhood, you would have to, you know, use a a landline or or you have to like sort of cycle to someone’s house or you have to sit there for 15 minutes for dialup to to come on come online and someone pick someone rings the phone and it gets cut off.

You have to go through all of this inconvenience.

an inconvenience building get told off for using the internet for like 45 minutes.

Yeah, that’s just so all that all that sort of stuff.

Um that’s just one example, but it’s happened throughout everything that we have in society now more and more like you know Deliveroo, Amazon, whatever it is, Ubers, cars just turn up magically.

Like it’s it’s not um I’m gonna call a car and just pray that it turns up on time and yeah pray that I go to the right one like it’s it’s not the same for the that whole generation.

So I think all of that is part of I think the speed of change is quite is having a big impact on them.

Yeah. Because society can’t evolve. It can’t society can’t evolve enough to keep up with it.

Yeah. Yeah.

It’s the it’s making the generational gaps smaller.

Even though we still have like millennial, gen Z, whatever, like you could speak to somebody six years younger than you and their childhood would be completely different.

Yeah. Yeah.

I’ve remember using phones with antennas and Ericson. I loved that phone. It would flip and it had it had a little anter. I loved it. It was so cool.

No, it was a Nokia, you know. 3310 was Yeah.

No, I had I think my mom had a Philips. Yeah. No, no, there was a couple. I think my mom had a Phillips and most.

The point is is life is getting in many ways easier.

I mean, if you wanted you could have a dinner in done in 3 minutes flat.

Uh it might not be good for you, but the point is you could have a dinner in 3 minutes flat.

but that’s the thing. It may be good for you. It It’s just not good for you.

It’s not good to have everything fast and now.

It’s not, you know, you need to be able to wait. You need to be able to.

I mean, I’m not good with pay have impatience to be I come across everyone says I’m so patient, but on the inside it’s like, yeah, I’ve got patience of the same.

I’m very patient. I’m very patient and I I observe, but that’s been that’s been beaten into me.

Like I will observe.

I may chat and I may be a chatter box and but that doesn’t mean I’m not watching. I’m not observing. I’m not assessing.

and you know especially when it comes to kids I’m always watching and and like so when you know that I still teach because I like to practice what I preach.

I don’t ever want to be one of those consultants that has left the profession completely.

and the amount of parents and people that have come into one of my lessons and said you’re not actually teaching but I am.

You just it’s just I have a different approach.

Yeah. Their view of teaching is not Yeah.

So, I might be talking about The Mandalorian, but actually I’m talking about McBth. It’s just that Yeah.

And and I might actually be standing there and I might be on my phone. I might be having a cup of tea and they’ll walk in and and the kid is working or just thinking and they’ll think that’s not teaching.

And I’m like, actually, it’s processing time.

So, yeah, I know that kid.

So, if I if I stand near him or if I look like I’m waiting for an answer.

So I I always with certain children busy myself so that they think okay she’s she’s backed off I’ve got time to you know.

but even that small window gives such relief to the brain cortisol goes down oxytocin and all the other serotonin goes up and the brain is clearer they can op they can function they can operate.

I hear what you’re saying like the gener there is a generation problem okay so we recognize that there’s a problem is there a solution?

Maybe we should have a portal to the 80s thing.

Going back to slower technology

Well, you say that. Um, like I follow like a load of like tech YouTube channels and stuff.

Um, people are going back.

Even all the Gen Z people are like buying up iPods.

Like they’re running out warriors.

They are, but they’re like going on eBay, they’re buying iPods, they’re buying dumb phones, switching off.

I think because they realize it’s making them ill.

Yeah. Yeah.

I I think that is going back to the roots is very very important.

It’s like taking time to like even even all right so if you you can bring in a robot to clean your house and stuff like that just do it yourself like because those sorts of tasks bring you self-esteem.

Yeah self they’re actually really important. Yeah.

Are we rescuing children too quickly?

Um, so do do you think we’re this is one of the questions. Do you think we’re rescuing children too quickly?

Uh, I think that’s what we’re I think as a society we are, but as a parent I’m definitely not.

I let them feel stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

I I think I think we sometimes try to like obviously if it’s something that causes like extreme mental and physical harm that you have to step in.

But with um it’s like when I went through like bullying stuff like that, it was actually long-term probably good because I I knew how to cope with it and I knew to fight back.

like as in because so my mom she she was like she didn’t get some parents got like really involved and tried to sort it out and she was like really like you have to sort it out.

So, like when I got like hit, I’d hit back.

I’d just be like, “D because that’s how you deal with it sometimes.”

And I used to just agree with them.

Oh, you’re dumb. You’re ugly.

I went, “Okay, I am. Thanks.”

And then just because what else could they say, “Well, you’re dumber.”

Okay, I’m that, too.

Like, they got bored.

It’s different.

Yeah, it’s different for girls and boys as well. like like um with boys it’s a lot more physical. Yeah.

And was like sociological tearowns like it’s completely different.

So sociological warfare. Yeah.

Is there there’s a Chris Rocks is it Chris Rock sketch probably. Whereas like there’s just not enough bullying going on in school.

He did not say that. Did he?

Yeah. He’s got a whole sketch about it.

Oh my god. No.

Like obviously it can be really bad and sometimes it I know in some places we’re not saying that’s so good.

But but like I’m I’m saying Yeah.

Yeah, but let’s just blanketly saying that bullying is good.

We’re just saying in our circumstances, it helped build something in us in those minor Yeah. minor ones if it’s like.

But like standing up to that bully probably gave me more self-esteem than I would have had like cuz I was like okay like people can’t push me around.

Um, so it made me stronger.

but of and also like bullies will pick on easy targets and your job in life is to well I think yeah as a parent as well like you try to not make your child an easy target.

Like one thing I love about Gen Z though is they have very little the one part of their impatience I like is they have very little tolerance for BS.

My daughter’s a good example.

She’ll give someone a bit of rope, but if that person consistently indulges in behaviors that violate her boundaries, and she’s very sensible.

She doesn’t have like high expectation boundaries, she doesn’t expect her friends to be all sing, but she does expect them to if she makes a mistake to come to her and just talk her through it.

She expects them to forgive her if she’s offered an explanation. Mhm.

Um but if that if people keep repeating the same patterns, she will cut and it’s the same with her.

Okay, I’m done with that.

And they will have zero hurt.

Whereas my generation or perhaps maybe it’s just a me thing. I’m too tolerant.

I’m too tolerant.

I have maybe but then teachers I believe teachers are are born. They’re not made.

And I think to be a teacher, you have to have something in you that makes you a teacher.

And so I know that my tolerance levels has helped my profession and my dealing with kids exponentially.

Yeah.

But it there’s a very negative side to that where I tolerate things that should not be tolerated.

And so but with my daughter, I’m so so glad she doesn’t want children.

Even though she’s only 14, she’s made up her mind.

And I’ve got a couple of nieces who did the same thing at very young age.

She just doesn’t want kids.

just wants to have a have an apartment, travel, and then just have her own work or business or whatever, and then just see life through maybe with a partner, maybe without a partner.

But she that’s the kind of life that she wants.

And I see quite a few of the kids in my family following suit.

My son, he says the other hand, no, he likes that whole 2.4 children white picket fence idea.

Ara doesn’t.

But I just love the fact that she hasn’t inherited that tolerance from me because when she says no, she means it.

Doesn’t mean she’s not giving you a bit of rope beforehand, but once she’s got to that point, there’s no going back.

And I have the utmost respect for the 14year-old daughter that I have like cuz she sticks to her boundaries.

The only thing is is I think at that age I think being open-minded is important thing to like obviously like not with say behavior that crosses but but it’s like about your future I think you don’t know that yet.

like you might want to get you just don’t know like when the hormones have settled you might you might find that they change your mindset.

I said you’ve seen inside out right they she gets an upgraded brain console And then she changes and I’m ass sure there’s going to be another one.

But I said she said to me, “No, I’m open-minded to everything. I just don’t know if I’m open-minded to children because a the world is not a very nice place.”

So, she’s thinking of it logically.

She said, “I don’t want to I don’t know if I want to release kids into whatever the future holds.”

Especially when she said, you know, you’re listening to the politicians and the way things are going.

And then she said also the finan finances for the working class are is becoming harder and so I don’t want to.

she said with all due respect mom I’ve watched you struggle.

Thank god like I’m a com I’m comfortable now but there you know when you go through divorce there’s always now I’m not going to sit here and pretend that it was all hunky dory.

There was lots of financial struggle.

She watched that and she said, “I’m glad you did it cuz obviously me and Issa are benefiting from from it, but I don’t know if it’s just me I have to take care of.” M.

then I don’t know if I want to work all the way until I’m 70 years old because I’ve told her I’m never going to stop working.

I will be like the Queen of England.

She was working until what the week before she died and I just said I want to write books. I want to There’ll always be something that I want my brain to be doing.

I think I’m the same.

No, no, no. Jonathan, uh don’t know if you like it enough.

It’s like I’ve got But you’re always learning something anyway, aren’t you?

I want No, I mean like I don’t I don’t want to like stop with activity.

But like cuz I think that’s that’s the point at which you probably quite like need to die.

Yeah. Like like if you just become inactive.

Yeah. M.

like I notic a massive like when my dad retired I noticed a massive decrease in the amount of his cognitive functions just was so much worse.

like and then he started doing like other like things that you should really be doing during retirement going dancing and going on cruises and stuff and then it’s like so much better.

so you shouldn’t never stop doing stuff.

but I I do get like you’re at 70 do you really want to like be need to work necessarily.

Need to work is different to doing. Yeah.

Not not need to work, just want to.

When I look at Gar Mate, he’s still podcasting. He’s still writing. He’s still he’s almost 80ome or he is 80some now.

I I just love that.

Like he doesn’t need to, but he does.

So I I guess I want to be in a situation where I don’t need to, but I want to.

Charlie Mer and Warren Buffett we’ve heard of when like they were working.

Well, Warren Buffett recently, he’s not even retired. He’s kind of still on the board.

How old is this guy? He must be like a million years old.

90, he must be 90 or 89 or something like that.

And then Charlie Munger was like 90. He died though, but 93 or four.

So, they kept going, but they enjoyed it.

They they enjoyed. And that was like a hobby for them like Yeah.

They’re still keeping their their brain active, aren’t they? Yeah.

And you could see it in in the way that they’re talking and stuff like that.

They’re they’re still they just died because their bodies run out of steam.

They didn’t die because their brain shut down.

And that’s exactly that’s what I pray for to be cognitively stable in my old age because I’ve seen a lot of elders in my own family who just logic and rationale have gone out the window.

I don’t want to be like that.

I always want to be logical.

I always want to be have my rationale even if my body starts to.

but that you know that’s why we I go to the gym you know because you want to avoid that.

and yeah and and cardio is not my priority anymore whereas before it was now I’m into weight training.

you need your body to keep going in order for your mind.

that’s that’s the thing as well it’s like you actually need to do both.

you need both.

yeah yeah I think the gym is very important.

back to grit.

no but that’s about gym isn’t.

Yeah, like you you have to there’s an analogy go through the tear down and the and the rebuild stronger.

Tear down and rebuild stronger.

That’s it’s just the way that the world has been set up. Yeah.

And I think that’s a good example.

You have to tear down and rebuild stronger.

Parenting, consequences and autonomy

And so with children to answer your initial question, you know, when do we when when do you step in when do when so I think as par the minute you decide to become a parent and even if you’re an accidental parent, you can give that child up.

You don’t have to keep it.

So, if you decide to keep that child, that’s a human being you’re developing who’s going to go into the world and however you mold them is going to affect a whole bunch of other people based on how you’ve brought them up, right?

On a daily basis, dinner. Can they do it or not? Punishments.

Um, for example, there was one ex Ara was rude to me when she was very little.

So, I decided I said there’s toast there, there’s bread there. I’m not going to cook for someone a special meal who’s disrespected me.

So, I’m not starving you.

There’s you’ve got toast there. You’ve got peanut butter Nutella.

So, you can have something to eat, but you have to understand that I’m in service. I’m not your servant.

There’s there’s a difference.

And that stuck with Ara because we have a great reciprocal relationship.

So, I decided to step in there and challenge her.

So, I think Yeah.

But you didn’t you didn’t leave her a point where it was past the zone of whatever.

She she still had what she needed.

Yes, absolutely.

She was able to do what she needed to do.

Yes.

And I knew she knew how to use the toaster. And I knew so.

But I wanted to drive a very strong message that I’m here to support you.

But I’m your mother. I’m not your servant.

And also m respect is mutual.

So I I I never parented for two. I never parented for five.

I’ve always parented for 25 because I want to have a mutually respectful relationship where we enjoy each other’s company and they come back to see me and enjoy my company.

If I’m crazy mom with cats, they won’t do that, you know.

Um, you know, so I have to work on my logic and my rationale to ensure my relationship with my children extends beyond adulthood.

So yes, going back to your question, it’s just an assessment and we have so much information.

AI as a tool, not a replacement

So, if you’re a parent and you’re in a situation and you’re stuck, download CLA, download Chat GPT if you can’t have access or afford an immediate therapist because as much as Google AI and all of these AIs, I have been in situations where I’m like, dude, I need to help organize my thoughts and I’ve just spoken into my my chat or whatever and it’s actually helped me.

So if we’re going to have AI, if we’re going to have these things anyway, yes, go back to analog, go back to But there are some things we can use to our benefit, you know.

So I think you can overuse it and you cannot use it at all.

But I think if you strike a balance and use it as a support aid, it can be very helpful.

I always I’ve been saying this, it’s it’s a tool. It’s not a replacement before.

Exactly.

We can finish it on this because um I got this from Andrew, the editor, our school friend.

And it’s I think it was from it was from years ago.

It was on the Frank Skinner podcast.

I think it was from his radio show.

And I’ve picked out from him.

The rule is if you know it already, you’re not allowed to look it up.

Could take you five minutes, could take you two days.

But if it’s in there, you can’t be like, “Oh, what was that thing again?”

If you know the information already, you have to wait for it to come back.

Oh, really?

If you don’t know it, you can look it up.

Okay. I like that.

That’s That’s the rule that I live by.

Okay.

I don’t know if I don’t know if he remembers that, but I’m going to go home and tell my kids that.

Yeah. If if you know it already, you can’t look it up.

Okay.

If you know it already, you can’t look it up.

It strengthens the um the whole neuron.

Yeah. Reconnecting because when they fire, blood flow goes fire together.

Yeah. Exactly.

So that’s the basic neuroscience.

But in terms of grit, I think that’s actually something we can relay.

So use the tools.

You’ve you’ve decided to stay a parent. you’ve decided to become a carer.

So, this kid is your responsibility.

Assess on a daily basis when they talk to you, is this a quick thing? Is it a short thing?

And when the big things hit, right?

I would say if you can’t afford a therapist, go to AI, use it as a tool.

Say, look, this is the situation. What what do some research what have what have you found on the internet that could help me deal with said situation?

And then take it forward from there.

Use it as a tool.

You have you have to be careful because it is programmed to just agree with you all the time.

Uh there was a benevolence aspect that Steven Bartlett discussed because his claude has become a bit judgmental and actually told him to go to bed.

It actually said to him, Steve, that’s enough now. Go to bed.

But because he was in a different time zone, it was 10:00 in the morning.

And then there’s been times where he said, right, actually I’ve changed my mind about this, this, this, then this. Can you redo this, this, and this?

and Craw has actually turned around and said, “No, I’m not going to do that.”

Oh my god, I’ve not seen that.

Because they’ve built in benevolence that so that the the AI is thinking this is going to be too much for him.

It’s going to stress him out or so it’s just decided to not do it and then and and so that’s probably a good thing to be honest.

Like Well, not when you need to get work done, but but is it I’ll I’ll forward you guys the actual episode that he that this happened.

Is it a recent episode?

Yes, fairly recent.

It’s a financial one. It’s a financial episode to do with investments.

Um I forget the guy’s name, but um it’s definitely worth watching.

Um but I think I think you just you’re going to be tired as a parent.

So you just need to accept that you’re going to be mentally, physically exhausted.

But what I would say to parents of little children, I you’re going to miss the innocence and the pure you’re physically tired when you’ve got little ones cuz you have to wake up with them, nurse them, look after them, breakfast, dinner, you know.

but there is nothing like when you’ve got teenage kids because you are going I would I would rather physical exhaustion.

You know why?

Because I know I can solve that problem.

I just need to go to bed.

I could have a nap with them.

but the psychological exhaustion that comes from having and my kids are actually quite good.

Yeah.

But the psychological exhaustion you that comes from running a family and dealing with other adults and children, it’s there’s no actual solution other than everyone else just adopting your mindset so they just get you.

There is no solution.

Whereas the the when they’re little, you can just go to sleep.

So enjoy it, but dip into tools, not replacement parenting tools.

Don’t remove the consequences

And please assess everything you say, even if it comes across as something minor.

You know, it’s not gentle parenting.

I’m not asking you to be a gentle parent.

I’m not asking to you to remove obstacles.

For example, if your kid has an accident, god forbid, they run someone over, you’ve got to march them into that police station.

Sorry, you just have to because it’s their mistake.

They’ve got you can be there to support them.

Whatever the process is, but they’ve got to live through the consequences.

So, I would say to parents, don’t remove consequences.

Even the big ones, don’t remove them.

Support them alongside it, but don’t remove them.

That’s probably the best.

That’s the thing that I’ve done with my kids is not remove consequences.

Outro

So, thanks for joining us again this month.

If you are watching us on YouTube, don’t forget to like and subscribe.

And if you are listening to us on Apple or Spotify, don’t forget to give us a follow and a rating.

And we’ll see you back again next month.

The Education Lounge podcast.