0:00 Intro
1:10 Meet Selena and Rupa
8:42 Using children’s interests to unlock learning
12:40 Teachers are handcuffed to the system
16:01 Does education prepare children for life?
20:23 The factory model, mental health and teenage sleep
24:13 What parents should look for in schools
26:14 Ofsted, paperwork and performative inspections
33:21 Early years, language and local culture
39:16 Oxytocin, childcare quality and staff retention
43:58 A healthier inspection system
47:47 Funding, early years and the cost of quality
51:19 Children’s mental health and the social media black hole
57:00 Why education starts from birth
1:02:08 Special needs, school readiness and early development
1:08:30 Parents, devices and emotional regulation
1:15:15 Redesigning education from scratch
1:20:54 Movement, music and bringing back childhood
1:40:20 AI, apprenticeships and future-ready learning
1:46:51 Wrap up

Intro

There was a music teacher though. I had been playing instruments for a few years, but I’d always stuck to my instruments, but he would encourage me to like come up and like conduct the orchestra and you’ll be fine. Like, you know, you you know how to do that, you can do this. That that sort of gave you confidence. Confidence. It’s a huge a huge thing in comparison to my later music teachers who did the exact opposite. Just kept knocking me down basically. But it’s funny how how big of an impact teachers have. It’s not about teaching them what to believe. It’s teaching them how to think. The ones I actually learned most from probably were technically less knowledgeable, but they were really able to translate the information. The most important conversations I’ve had have probably not been about the subject.

They come to you and they trust you in that way. If you’re able to do that as a tutor, that’s like you’re not just a good tutor. We’re like getting into being a great tutor. The Education Lounge podcast.

Can you know your subject and still be a poor tutor?

So, you know, when we were at school, did you ever have I mean, we had some classes together. Yeah. Did you have any teachers who you thought all right this person really knows the subject they know like the knowledge but they don’t really know how to deliver or like deliver it to the students. Uh definitely. Yeah, definitely. I I I did do I just remember in maths there was a maybe let’s not do names but no there there was someone who who who taught A level math and definitely was like super super smart. I mean I like the guy and all that but I I didn’t feel like I learned that much personally. Yeah.

I I’ I’ve found I found that in uh I think chemistry, couple of math classes, and actually, weirdly enough, the ones I actually learned most from probably were technically less knowledgeable in terms of like knew their subjects not as deeply, but they were really able to translate the information. I don’t know whether that was the case for me, whether it was like the fact that they didn’t know as much. It was more It’s not because they didn’t know. Yeah, that’s not what I’m saying. No, that was just a coincidence. Yeah. Yeah. I I think um they they just maybe they’re just more personable, more uh Yeah. friendly, I guess. More able to relate. More relatable. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I guess that’s what it is. Well, it just leads us onto today’s question really, which is well, we’ll start with this.

Can you know your subject brilliantly and still be a not very good tutor? Is that possible? What I’ve learned is that for instance, being able to do a math paper doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re able to teach it the same way to each student, like the the best way to each student. Mhm. And what I’ve discovered is that like I’ve completely changed the way that I’d approach a given topic based on on the basis of the fact that I’m teaching it rather than doing the questions. So which is strange to me. So like some things in maths I didn’t learn how I teach it but I discovered a better way of relating it through teaching and then discovering oh no they don’t understand the way that I would approach it.

So I think it is the case that but that is also acquiring a deeper knowledge of the subject in one sense cuz you’re approaching it in a different way. Yeah. I mean it’s more I mean obviously subject knowledge is Mhm. needed. It’s required. Yeah. But I I I don’t think that’s I mean it’s one of the main things obviously but it’s kind of important. I don’t think it’s the only thing. Oh, it’s definitely not the only thing. But I I do think on some level being able to relate a topic to a child is a matter of knowing it inside out but maybe in a different from a different perspective. So it’s not so much that that that’s what I’ve discovered personally like I could teach something in the way that I learned it at school or that I do it but my way is not necessarily the best way.

And then in watching other people approach something like other tutors or whatever I like pick up ways of communicating it in a better way and that so so it is a gap of knowledge but it’s a different sort of knowledge I suppose. Yeah. So when I’m referring to knowledge I’m referring to specifically the the course content I guess you call it. So what whatever enables you to get like the marks on the question or Yeah, pretty much. Yeah.

The teachers who made the greatest impression on us

Um do you have any examples of of this? Well, not necessarily of this, but of your experience as as like a as a as a student. Your experience as a student. Well, a a teacher in particular like sort of Yeah. having that issue or um having that issue or or like well the best the best and worst. I mean I can I can I can give you my example if you want. Well, I think you’ve heard like obviously miss there’s two teachers that I think stood out or three three teachers that I think really stood out. one to me when I was growing up. I I think it’s fine to mention them because this is in a good good way. Um so in history it was Mr. Brandt. Um it was the way that he was able to relate history to life.

So he was able to present it like a So we did med I did medieval history with him and the GCSE course with him and he was able to relate these ideas from the past and relate them to modern life and also like personal life as well. So, and and he had such a storied life himself and he was able to like throw those strands in too. And he was extremely educated guy like he he went to Cambridge and studied history there. And so it wasn’t so much that he was like overeducated. And um it it was more the case that he was he had very very particular skills that were quite unique. And I think a lot of people saw him that way like he was a unique I didn’t do history at GCSE but I think I had him for maybe a year. Did you did it like year I don’t know year eight or something like that like did you find that like he was I remember incredibly engaging.

I remember him being good. Yeah. Um he was also really really good at feedback. So specifically he he was so good at saying like what you need to improve. Mhm. So I remember him very well. Uh someone who I definitely related to very well was Mr. Mlennon. Yeah, I remember him vaguely. And so so his Latin teacher, Latin, I think I again I think I had him once. Like I absolutely smashed Latin. Like it was the only subject I could do for some reason. Yeah. um in first year or whatever because I was I felt like I was like behind in a loads of subjects apart from Latin because everyone kind of didn’t know what they were doing. So I was like, “Oh, I’m kind of on an even kill with everyone else cuz no one else knows what they’re doing.” And I’ I was getting really really good grades in in um Latin.

And I think if id had him all through my school life essentially, we would have I would have done much better. I would have because he was so I do know what it is. It’s like the ability to relate to boys. He was so good in that way. Like he was s he was such a lad. Such a lad. Um and he really brought that across in his lessons. He had a lot of humor too. He talk about his grandfather all the time and how he had a massive combo over and he’d be like he’d stand this way and the wind would blow it the right way. So in photos and stuff like that. um Irish guy obviously Mlend. And then yeah, I had him for like year seven. He’s fun, right? He was funny. Yeah. Yeah, he was really fun. Um and the third was Mr. Folks who we’ve had on before. Yeah, he was on last season.

Um in English cuz up to then I don’t think I’d had very good English teachers at all. Um but I was very good at English. So that that was like one of my strengths, but I felt like I never really reached the level that I could have until he started taking class. And then he just brought it across in a different way. Again, it was a bit like the lad ladishness, which yeah, shows you how important it is to get, you know, like men into teaching because I I honestly did relate better to men throughout my school life, like primary school to to now. It was always the male teachers that I think had a massive impact on me. And it is because it’s literally like a mirror for Yeah. the boys. Yeah. Yeah. I probably say the same. Yeah. Um there were some great female teachers.

But I think like in terms of who inspired me, like specifically those words inspired. Yeah. Um definitely the male teachers.

How teachers build—or damage—confidence

Um yeah uh I can share one example which I’ve mentioned I think on one of the chat videos that we did. Yeah. Um there was a music teacher that sort of left maybe three years after we started. So I I obviously I had been playing instruments for a few years. Mhm. But I’d always stuck to my instruments. But he would um encourage me to like come up and like conduct the orchestra and um things like here’s a double bass like I don’t I don’t I don’t play double bass so I don’t know what to do. It’s like well it’s the same as what you were doing on the violin but just these are the notes just play along with everybody else. You’ll be fine. Like you know you you know how to do that you can do this. That that sort of gave you confidence. Confidence. It’s a huge a huge thing in comparison to my later music teachers who um did the exact opposite.

Just kept knocking me down basically. Yeah. I mean that was really sad when that guy left. Yeah. Um but it’s funny how how big of an impact teachers have. Yeah. When you like I I know that I would have done chemist I think I would have done chemistry if I had had the right. Yeah. Yeah. When I was thinking of my boring lessons, I was thinking of maybe we’re in the same class for that. Yeah, we were triple chemistry on a Wednesday. You know, Chris had him fall asleep seven years. Poor Chris. Um, but to be fair, I did do well. It was just in terms of getting that, you know, inspiration level. Yeah. Like we had um before that I had um was it Mr. Henley Smith? Dr. Henley Smith.

Smith where he, you know, he’d um, you know, he’d be sneaking food in the class and he’d be like, “Burn it.” Well, yeah, take a crisp and burn it, see how much see how much energy is in there. Well, okay. Um, whereas, you know, do you think he’s he’d joke around with you? He’d always make like dad jokes and he’d let you he’d let you like, you know, do experiments where like things actually blow up and all this sort of He was my housem and I had him like every single week that was our house our house meeting involved blowing something up. I mean that’s like that’s just fun. That’s like makes chemistry fun. Whereas we move from him to this other teacher who just wouldn’t Yeah. barely do experiments. The experiments when you do it potassium you put into water and it blows up and that sort of stuff. Um he’d put like a tiny little drop.

There’s a big screen. There’s goggles. Okay, that was that. Go back to your seat. Yeah. Whereas Henley Smith would just a block in. He did this thing. He say time fire and stuff like that. Yeah. It’s fun. It makes it makes it interesting. It makes it um just makes you excited about the subject, doesn’t it?

Passing exams without truly understanding the subject

Yeah. I I do think like that that’s the thing is you do want to have that sort of spark which makes you want to take it to a further level because yeah it’s curiosity isn’t it? It didn’t it didn’t like I’d never got to that stage with chemistry even though I was good at it. I never felt like I really first of all I don’t feel I truly understood it. Well, chemistry, which is weird, like cuz like I just I didn’t I like I didn’t really get it, but I could do the exams, which which um same which made me feel kind of not very confident with it. Um well, you learn you learn that how to answer the exam question. Yeah. Without knowing what the hell it actually means. But I think that was a problem in terms of the curriculum and how it worked back then. Um because I I don’t think you I think you need a much deeper grasp of how things Yeah.

how how the subject fits together and how it works. Yeah. Not just, you know, it wasn’t so much wrote learning. But back then I felt like I just knew all the answers, but I didn’t know why. Yeah. Which was for me not satisfying. Yes. Yeah. I would agree. Cuz you’re not really learning. You’re just sort of regurgitating. Yeah. Where whereas like learning is like you understand the principles of I think curiosity is a massive massive thing. There’s certain people who are like happy that they’re like okay it’s fine as long as I get good results. But I was like never that person. I was like I want to know I want to understand why that is the case not just and I think that was a a hole in my math education too cuz I I was always like why is it that way?

And it never really that that’s really what I brought to when I talk is is like I I want to explain why this is the case. So I’d actually spend time looking up why something would be the case and introduce that into my tutoring. Um and it also meant that like you you know for a small small period of time I was a science teacher some for some reason. um when we first started. Yeah. And I really understood chemistry a lot more because I had to look into why something was actually that way. And then I was like, “Oh my god, that’s actually why it was that why why it is that way.” Um and it was never really sort of brought across in the class. It was just something that I knew, but I didn’t know why it was that way. So it’s kind of it is a shame because you you think oh I could have actually done this at like a level.

I could have taken this further but I didn’t have that maybe the inspiration level when Yeah. Yeah. It’s the inspiration level what what you um again cater you’re off to. Yeah. I was curious, but it was just like I I think it was harder as well when we were younger to know things because there weren’t there there wasn’t the same level of resource that there is available now. It’s just now there’s so much on YouTube. Uh YouTube, yeah, YouTube is there. Um, and I think that would have been a great like like as in back then there’s things that I would have definitely looked up on YouTube that you could do now and it wasn’t available. They didn’t have No, I mean we had textbook. Well, we had textbooks, we had BBC by size and we had like, you know, bunch of other websites and things, but it wasn’t it wasn’t as it wasn’t interactive video. Yeah.

I think with chemistry and stuff like that, it really helps like Yeah. I can see.

What students and parents want from a tutor

Um, so what would you say got another question here? What would you say a student would say make somebody a great teacher or teacher? And specifically, would the students answer to that question be different to the parents? That’s a good question. So I think from a from a student’s perspective the likability is a very very strong factor. I think that’s true just of people generally. Yeah. Um so I would say it’s it’s true of the parents too like they want to like the teacher. Um, but I’d say for the student it’s the necessary part. So you need that at least at the very least. And part of that I think is making the student feel heard. I think that that personability of the jud keeps the student happy to come back. Yeah. If and for the parent I mean I think we’ll have the same monster but go on. Well, it’s not that that’s not important.

That’s actually I think it’s but it well the same things where the position changes. I think for the parent it’s how the t how the student reacts grades and knowledge for the parent followed by does do they enjoy it generally speaking whereas the student is do they enjoy coming here and then they’re basically learning without realizing I’ll tell you that but I’ I’d obviously like say it’s not always no no generally speaking it is though I don’t know I think parents do the the the impression that I’m getting from most parents is that they definitely still want their child to enjoy it, but maybe it’s it’s also the exam is incredibly important too.

So it’s more the reason the reason to seek out coming here is oh to seek out because the parent wants grades and yeah I think that’s their initial reason and then it’s funny cuz a lot of parents start to realize wow like their confidence is improving and that sort of stuff like that that’s the feedback that I get. Well if you look at our um uh Google reviews one of the highlighted words one of the main highlighted words is confidence. Yeah. Like they’re shocked at how much impact it has on everything else. Yeah. Yeah. That that I think is the surprising thing and that’s I I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily missing from teaching because it depends. It depends on a lot of things.

When a tutor becomes a mentor

But I think that’s one massive advantage of tutoring that the mentorship aspect.

I think that’s well it’s funny you should say that because the next well you’ve kind of covered it to be honest but what I was going to come on to next was are parents buying sometimes buying confidence rather than tuition and the next thing in my notes was when does a tutor become a mentor so you were covering it anyway so you might as well carry on straight into those those topics I’ll say this like students since over my long history being a tutor like I was tutoring for like 17 years old or 16 years so so many children have confided in me like things that they weren’t willing to say to their parents um and and I mean I think this happens at school as well so teachers it definitely happens with them But with that much closer and it can happen as well like if the student goes to the teacher after school whatever if it’s someone they feel confident with or that kind of thing they might say things that they might not say otherwise just any adult who you know feels safe if you’re able to do that as a tutor that’s like what I’d say is sort of you’re not just a good tutor you’re like getting into being a great tutor because if they feel safe enough to come to you and then say okay like I want to do this like I’m having conflicts in this regard like I’m not sure about this and they come to you and they trust you in that way.

Um there’s kind of nothing like that in the current system. I think it’s really missing as well because like even kids that even ch children they might not be causing trouble in school like or not standing out in any particular way those really really need help like the ones that are causing trouble in school needing extra support and the school recognizes that and all that that they definitely need mentorship. But even amongst like kids that or students that are good, you do find that there is that need. They they need more personal help. And it’s not and it tends to be like life related, not just subject related. Well, I mean, we are for a lot of people the only place that’s not school or home, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s weird because I think you don’t go into it thinking in that way as a tutor.

You don’t you don’t really you just go I got to teach this today or you do. Yeah. Yeah. Um but then come to think of it, the most important conversations I’ve had have probably not been about the subject. And probably the most impactful conversations that I’ve had have been again not related to the subject. And sometimes it can also be about study skills. Um so some students that’s still related to Yeah. But as in it’s not necessarily what I thought I’d be teaching them. um it’s adjacent, but I think a lot of it is it’s more about psychology and they don’t really realize how to approach it. So, so it’s it’s a hole in their knowledge um that probably wouldn’t be filled by me just going through like how something works.

It’s it’s you know giving them advice in in terms of how their brain works and how to get the most out of their study sessions and that sort of thing. Yeah.

Why emotional intelligence matters in teaching

So, I guess most of what we’ve spoken about so far, it it comes down to something you can’t necessarily see uh in a grade or in a CV, which is someone’s emotional intelligence. No. And I think that is the the key that links everything we’ve spoken about so far. I think I think it’s to do with emotional intelligence of what’s what makes somebody a good teacher. Yeah, like as an I would say that if I’d done a PGCE, I’d probably be a better tutor because there’s things that you learn and pick up. And if you’re in if you’ve got the intelligence to pick things up and apply them, there’s a you know, every little thing that you learn here and there can be applied. So and and definitely in because I studied for a certle. I did teaching as an additional language, teaching English as a additional language.

Um I did learn stuff or in terms of teaching theory and you know how how best to approach teaching especially English but like it taught me sort of wider things as well. Um, and there’s a lot of things that you’d learn on a PGCU that I think would make me a better tutor. So, I’m not against the idea that, you know, you work towards a qualification and it could make you better at this, but there’s certain I think teachers are sort of they they’re you know, they’re they’re sort of tied by the way the job works and by the system. Yeah. which we spoke about with Selena in the last couple episodes. Um, and they’re tired by the fact that they they deal with such large class groups. Not just that. No, but it makes a difference, isn’t it?

Teaching students how to think, not what to think

Like one one thing that I truly believe in, and I think a lot of tutors are very similar, is that we’re not I’ve got this wide belief in education in that it’s not about teaching them what to believe. It’s teaching them how to how to think. My impression of education generally these days. Um and education throughout time really has been you’re teaching them what to believe and what to think rather than how to think. And I really think like that’s a massive advantage as a tutor. You as in you you because you’re not pegged into a system. Yeah. Do we go down the conspiracy hole or do we not? I I think even if you weren’t to go down the conspiracy hole, you can still say like it’s logical that you would teach it in a very formulaic manner. I I think it’s completely logical like Yeah. Yeah.

Is it is it a teaching how how to think versus teaching what to think? Yes. No. No. I mean education is paired with politics like it as in they they are one and the same because it makes and throughout history it’s been the case that politicians and civil servants and people like that will identify um all wider regimes. So if you look at like communist Russia and that sort of stuff, the Soviet Union, the way that they utilize and ma um during the cultural revolution, the way that you utilize education has a massive impact on the way the population think and behave. Yep. Right. But even if you weren’t to say that, if you if you’re saying, “Okay, like we need to create an education system,” it makes sense to make it as systematic as possible. And thus, it’s easier to always teach them what to think instead of how to think.

So, I I kind of get why it’s that way. And I understand that teachers don’t really have as much scope as they could have because of because of that. Yeah. It works that way. There’s a numbers thing, isn’t it? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. You’ve got to teach to the the mean and that that has its own limits. But there is an aspect in which that it’s like politics and yeah, which is um it makes sense. I mean, even even here obviously we’ve written curriculums for all of our courses and Mhm. all of our subjects and they’ve been written to work for everybody. Yes. Rather than if you were writing something for one specific person. Mhm. It’s almost impossible to to to do. Yeah. If you want to, you know, run a country or scale a business or whatever it is, like you you need to have some some level of this work for most people. No.

And and also you you do want to have I think as a it’s logical that a government would want control over the education system. Like it’s it as in if I were running a dictatorship if I no I I would go okay how do I want people to think and behave like it’s done at a young age like you know you know about the um not so much anymore but you know about the whole McDonald’s uh how do I word it? Get get kids into McDonald’s at a young age tour thing. Yeah. The bright colors and Well, yeah. Not so much. There was bright colors. You get Toys with the Mills. It’s a playground and Yeah. And then same and same with like what um what Apple do with their with their stuff. It’s like 90% of the US use iPhones or whatever. Uh and they make cheap ones so that parents have control over Yeah. whatever.

And they get used to that that system and then they end up growing up and being Apple users. And so all big companies do this sort of thing. Get indoctrinate early sort of. Yeah. And the government is to some extent is is a covenant company that as Elon Mus says can’t be ins can’t go insolvent. It’s like yeah the I call them the mafia. But yeah but but and I think it’s logical and and also it’s not necessarily wrong. If I could bring up uh Singapore, Singapore was not is on the same plane as like these like Vietnam, South Korea, like these these countries that were incredibly impover impoverished. It was only through a great deal of societal education reform and so on that they were able to rise. They would not have had the level of of prosper prosperity if people were just allowed to think how they’re meant to think.

they they had to go all right what’s the most functional way to think how do we put how do we punish people if you know how Singapore is with like punishment that sort of thing like it like like I not not a lot really but I remember hearing something about um if you put gum on the floor or something you yeah you can get caned and stuff like that like as in they’re very very strict when it comes to punishment but they like it was like in Then they knew that in a functioning society people have to learn how to behave and the people didn’t know how to behave like they they they weren’t behaving right and it wasn’t conducive to economic growth.

So thus they changed the whole system for to sort of push them the right way and it might have seemed harsh like it but in some ways and and it’s the same with South Korea and other other countries like a lot of people say okay well the things that they did were quite extreme especially in the like the 70s and the 80s they were quite extreme um but they did radically push forward these countries um they they were mainly agricultural countries. They didn’t know how to act in like a developed city economy. Like they they did not know how to how to behave. Um and the education did that. The education system was a massive part of that. There was obviously a lot of legal frameworks they had to shape. It’s the same as like a market. every if everything’s a market. A market has to have rules.

If a market does not have rules, we’d still be dealing in slaves. Like markets are just institutions that are set up and that they have to have rules that govern them in the same way that society has to have rules that governs it. So, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the fact that people utilize um education to get across a certain message that they want to see or certain behaviors that they want to see. Like I I wish that there was so much more on like getting people not to litter. Yes. Like it drives me crazy. Like Yeah. Me too. Um and I think it should be like a harsh penalty if you are littering. Mhm. Now, don’t get me wrong, there’s probably loads of things where I’m like, “Okay, well, this is very and and this is I think the problem. There’s like disagreement.

There’s these gray areas.” Whereas most people can say, “All right, it’s probably best for society if people don’t litter.” And I think it’s on the gray areas though that, you know, there’s not enough openness. So that’s where I think they need to like they they teach they should teach absolute rules that help society flow and function and they should be a bit more open-minded when it comes to things that are gray very much gray areas as in you know whether that is right or wrong is not something to be taught you know Um I don’t know how he went from uh emotional intelligence to dictatorships and well well like uh cheaters have that advantage and obviously it’s not every cheater um but they have got an advantage in that because they’re slightly outside the education system they’re not quite as controllable. Um yeah.

Well, have you have you noticed

Why great teachers are often independently minded

that the uh linking directly back to the beginning where we spoke about the um the best teachers, have you noticed how they’re always the ones that battle the system? Ian, Selena, not always. I don’t think they necessarily battle the system, but Well, they do it their own way. Like they don’t don’t always listen to what? Yeah. They they have they have strong independent streets. They’re independently minded. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that’s definitely true, but they I don’t think they’re going against the system, but I think in this current because teachers are generally a lot of the time educated the same way and grow up in the same system that can leave them leave them all to have almost the same opinions.

There’s this there’s this large problem in teaching generally um where they’re all kind of a lot of them are actually pro they’re very leftwing very like extremely leftwing as a profession. Yeah. I think that becomes problematic. Obviously they all go to universities and universities are very leftwing. They’ve been like taken over more and more so. Yeah. Um, a lot of it’s Chinese related I think because having been in having taken a masters I saw how Chinese thought sort of permeated throughout the university. And when you say Chinese thought, what do you mean? Just Soviet ideas. Communist thinking had basically filtered into the discourse across every subject and discipline. Um you don’t a lot of these universities get a huge amount of money from China and you can see honestly you can see the influence. Yeah.

um as a student but I think the thing is is that people seem some almost blind to it like it’s very unconscious but it’s most people are yeah but like Z and I definitely saw I definitely saw that there was a big big influence but I never saw it while I was at uni but I’ve noticed it more and more in the last eight years or so it’s ramped up hasn’t it because back when we were I think it was a thing but it wasn’t as much of a thing back in Not like what it is now. No, but to be fair, it is because we’ve had a lot of problems with western thinking. So, a lot of people say so like western economies and crashes and that sort of thing. Like it’s it’s inevitable that people look for other solutions, that sort of stuff.

And then all that China did was it filled a discourse like it filled it was like okay well like maybe if those ideas don’t work then we can fill fill that in. Um and and there there are problems with the western ways of thinking. I I do think it’s kind of unacceptable. Um after the financial crisis in 2008, like the way that Western economies dealt with that issue and how it occurred was unacceptable. Um and we’re still not like one and people wonder like why why is is the UK the way that it is? And a lot of it is because of that event. People don’t realize how impactful it was. Um, and it makes sense that people, especially in academia and stuff like that, were like, is there a better way of doing things? Like, you know, when you allow, for instance, private markets to go crazy, which is essentially what you what happened.

Um, it was allowed by the state though. That’s the thing. the the state facilitates everything. It had a political route even though everyone kind of went okay it’s all the banker’s fault but a lot of these problems came from political ideas. So it was loosening of the housing policy which allows markets to go crazy. So everything’s interlin and it makes sense that there’d be a counter movement to that. But everything has a counter movement. It’s like you can see the pendulum swing, isn’t it? Yeah. Things went increasingly left wing, right? And then now you see a swing in the opposite direction. Mhm. Because it’s trying to find that balance between the two wings. So I’m never like never will be. It’s just going to constantly go back and forth. But um yeah, like who will win essentially and then No, nobody will win.

Somebody wins for a bit, then somebody else wins for a bit and then it’s Yeah. Your only hope is that it doesn’t swing too far. So yeah, cuz then you end up with like Nazi Germany essentially. Like you think about it, most like fascist regimes and stuff like that came out of economics instability like Nazism. I mean, you could say, okay, he just had some whack ideas and there was the Aryan race and white supremacy and that sort of stuff, but a lot of it came from an economic route. That’s why economics is the most important force in life, but it’s also the one we have least control over.

Guided discovery instead of spoon-feeding answers

Yeah, I’m gonna try and bring it back on topic before we go down this route any further. So, bringing it back on topic, how much do you think a tutor should challenge a student as opposed to like So, okay. cuz you have you have some tutors that deliver answers spoon feed to the point where they might be doing a paper with with the tutor and it ends up in most of the thought being done by the tutor as opposed to what we said about earlier about um building confidence and um always allowing them to sort of find guiding them down the route to get their own Yeah. that curiosity thing rather than spoon feeding. I I think ideally in every form of education, everything should be guided discovery. So guided discovery is a way that you you you teach and approach to teaching. Um I learned about it during my tessle.

So that’s what I mean like you can if you have any sort of education um in in teaching then you you do learn some stuff hopefully you do learn some stuff. Um if I could teach everything that way but that’s really my main that was always my thing with tutoring. I’d think okay what’s like a creative way to get them to discover this or understand something? Yeah. Why is it useful? I think perseverance is a massive and uh something that you really is what you want to get. Yeah.

you something that you want to get across to your student no matter what is the things that are the the things that are too like nothing’s that straightforward and it’s worth the journey getting to the answer like enjoying the journey and not just the destination well it teaches you how to think how to problem solve essentially yeah so I think actually a tutor should never give a straight answer unless it’s literally What’s the word for this thing? In which case, like you you have to give them the word like so they can look it up themselves. Is it like and I kind of think it my dad did the exactly the same thing. He would cuz I was like what does this word mean? I was always asking him like what does this word mean? And then he’d be like he’d give me a dictionary like depends what the word is.

When then when people have asked me that I what’s the prefix? What’s the suffix? What’s the root word? The root word means this. Yeah. Puzzle piece it together. Yeah. But I mean to be fair if it is a root word itself. And yeah, a lot of the time it it wasn’t necessarily something that probably quite a difficult word in a lot of cases. I’ I’d be like, “Okay, what does it mean?” And then he’d just give me a dictionary. Um, and I really think that’s there’s a little bit missing from the modern system. Well, especially when people using dictionaries are like digital, just like using alphabetical order and logic to find the word in in the book. I think that’s that’s slightly overrated once you reach a certain level because Yeah.

But it’s it’s the same principle as like, oh, we’re going to remove all the analog clocks because no one knows how to use them anymore. Yeah. No, why don’t you teach them how to use it and you know Yeah. Because I think but we get to that point where education is no longer just a functional thing as in there’s always value in every single single every single piece of knowledge you can learn. I think there’s nothing not worth knowing. Uh, depends what it is. Like what? Well, like I I don’t follow news, for example. But as long as you It depends how you process it. Uh, I don’t want to stress over something I’d have no control over. But either you’re filled with the knowledge that you can’t do anything about it anyway or you don’t need to worry about it then you but it’s not really a controllable thing.

If I see something you know then I I just I know again conspiracy stuff but I I don’t follow the news. So there’s me choosing not to have specific knowledge. That’s why so, but that’s a bit of a different that’s protecting your sanity, psychological well-being, which is, you know, fair enough, but that descended from a piece of knowledge somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that did. So, so it’s like it’s a it’s a conscious choice. We still need to yeah you can you can still choose not to know something but generally I do think it’s better to be at least informed about the core you know core general knowledge like or core principles. So if if it’s like okay like you could learn this fact about biology that won’t do any you any harm. No, no, no, no.

Um, if you spend all your time listening to like negative reports and that sort of thing, maybe it affects your psychology in in negative ways. But with I think with something like you know like learning some biological fact a lot of the time. Although having said that, listening to like D of a CEO just makes me always think, “Oh no, I’m just killing myself, aren’t I?” Like, yeah, like every single episode just like, “Oh, this is killing you and this is and this is why you’re going to die.” Yeah, they’re lying about berries. I just like that’s the one thing I can eat. Um, but it does inform me on how to maybe avoid some of those issues. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. Like for instance, I I think I have taken on board a lot of the negative message they’ve given about, you know, sugar.

So, cuz my sugar intakes really decreased and it just that comes with maybe learning something I didn’t necessarily want to hear. So, yeah. So, there there’s good things about hearing the negative if you’re able to process them in a way that informs your behavior. And it’s like for instance um if you find out for instance uh you know how Andy Burnham wants to put on the housing property tax or whatever. Yeah. So I I discovered okay I might have to pay like double the rate. Um because I think like rental properties they’re thinking of doing a double rate. But that isn’t a bad thing for me to know. Even though it’s like something that might might make me go, “Oh, no. This is bad for me.” It’s good for me to know because then it allows me to plan. It allows me to go, “Okay, like I mean, yeah, that’s that’s different.

That sort of knowledge is Yeah. Obviously useful. Guided versus given the answer.” Mhm. Um, the next

Honesty, praise and constructive criticism

similar sort of in this in a similar sort of vein, praise, I guess, like overly praising uh versus harshness, I guess. Well, there’s place for both in life. Like, I think you Well, that’s specifically with teaching. trying to stay on topic. Yeah. No, no, there’s place for both in teaching. Yeah. I I think you you don’t over praise and you don’t over you need to strike a balance. Um you need to be honest. I think that never stops as in if you’re always honest with the students what you and the parents and the parents. I was literally just before we started recording this, I was editing a um uh parent testimonial and one of the first things she said in the interview actually was Selena uh was about confidence and the honesty. Yeah. Literally the first thing she said. Yeah.

I think like one advantage of being a being a cheater, and I understand this from a teacher’s perspective as well, like cuz when you’re too honest as a teacher, you can either get into trouble or you can end up with conflicts that you don’t necessarily want. As a tutor, I have no problem with being honest. Some tutors would have that issue, but I don’t know. We we tell all of our staff to always just say it up front. Say how it is. I Yeah, I’ll generally say it how it is, but there’s obviously like striking that balance and sort of going, “Okay, well, I’m not going to completely rip this a new one.” Like um but um cuz you don’t want to affect the Well, it comes back to exactly what we said. Well, we’ve said it several times, but probably in a I was like maybe three

Praising effort and finding the right level of challenge

or four episodes ago is to always praise effort over outcome. It’s hard to do you know what it’s actually very difficult to do. Well, it depends on the on the child like you know especially if they have um have needs then you have to consistently praise the effort even though it might sound straightforward to you or to other students. Yeah. But they’re still trying and they’re trying. They’re trying. You keep praising that. It’s hard. It’s hard sometimes when you got someone who’s actually very very very good and does all the work that they need to do, but you know that there’s probably more in there. They’re quite difficult to deal with. And that’s the other end of the spectrum because then you need to find more challenging things that really get them to struggle a little bit. Yeah. Zone of proximal development. Yeah.

I think I think that’s that’s usually the thing. So getting them to actually reach that point of, you know, having to think enough. Yeah. Well, you want them to I I’ll we’ve I’ve done it before. I’ll find the the uh not animation. What’s it called? The visual of the zone approximal development that I made a while ago. Okay, cool. Well, it’s a circle. It’s a circle. Um I’ll put it here somewhere. And it has the middle is where you are. The bullseye sort of area is where you are. Then it goes into things that are just out of reach but get the ball. Yeah. And then the outside ring I think is like things that are so far out of reach it’s going to knock all your confidence out. I think that’s rough, if I remembered it correctly, it’s roughly something like that.

So you always want to be giving someone like that or anybody actually like work and uh tasks that are just out of reach but getable.

Productive struggle, persistence and impossible problems

They got so far away that you just think is this is too much and it knocks your confidence. They did this they I think they did this experiment where they gave children an impossible task and he actually like as in they gave well I think it worked in so they gave one set of students an easy problem one sets of set of students an impossible problem cuz it’s a classroom and they put their hand when they were done. No, I’ve seen they’re a different thing then. But but but that’s based on the same principle, but this was an actual study, not just a Yeah. Okay. Um and the easy obviously the kids that did the easy problem were like, “Okay, yeah, I’ve solved it or whatever.” And then the kids that got the impossible problem like tried really, really hard to solve it, they couldn’t do it.

And then they gave them a problem that’s very hard but not impossible. And then they gave the other set of kids a problem that is very hard but not impossible. And the kids that had done the really really easy problem gave up. Yep. And then the kids who got the impossible problem impossible problem persisted and solved it. And solved it. Yeah. So, and there were I think a group that was tested to be basically almost the same IQ wise and that sort of thing. So, they moderated the group so to ensure that it wasn’t that there’s going to be some variation. It’s not perfect experiment but it does show you you know there is sometimes value in giving children almost impossible things to do. Um I again is the effort.

I remember once I accidentally gave gave one of my students impossible problem and she spent the whole lesson trying to do it and then I realized it was impossible and then I told her at the end I was like sorry and she was really really annoyed at me but it really impressed me how she positioned kept throwing. Yeah. Yeah. Um and like and and she’s very successful as a result. Probably not as a result, but like from now on day, but but it shows you that the ability to to to approach the and there’s loads of things in life that seem impossible at one point until it becomes possible. like a lot of the things that these people are doing in AI labs or whatever like it seems impossible. Um and now it’s like it’s coming. Yeah. It’s impossible until it’s not. Yeah. or going to the moon, whatever.

Like it seemed like it seemed impossible and like humans flying seemed impossible for a long period of time until plane and then you’re like, okay, well, it is possible for bees to fly. So, a lot of things in life seem impossible and we’ve just got to think of creative ways to get around. Well, those things are only only became possible because of somebody trying over and over and over again. Yeah. failing, failing, trying, failing, trying.

Recognising pressure, exhaustion and burnout

Yeah. So, I think if you can teach your students anything, it’s persisting in thinking, persisting in working at something. But then also sometimes it’s when you’ve got a child who’s really really pushing themselves so much as a tutor, it’s very important to be able to go look like I think you’re burning out. Like, don’t Don’t do too much. Take a rest here. Whatever. So, you do need that emotional intelligence. You need to spot spot stuff. I I’ve kind of want to emphasize this like to any tutor that works for us or otherwise like the most important thing is awareness and attentiveness.

Outro

So once again, thank you for joining us on this episode, the first episode of season 6. If you are watching us on YouTube, don’t forget to like and subscribe and comment down below. And if you are watching or listening to us on Spotify or Apple, give us a follow and a rating. And we’ll see you back again next month. The Education Lounge podcast.