00:00 – Intro, Christmas episode setup & host banter
01:40 – First watches and cinema screening memories
05:04 – Score talk: Ode to Joy, Japan link, festive motif
08:13 – Economic storytelling: limo scene, surname change, character setup
10:44 – Barefoot/grounding symbolism & first Gruber–McClane encounter
15:02 – Quick plot recap, cops/FBI enter, the “monkey in the wrench”
22:12 – McClane vs Gruber: foils, status, and arcs (plus Al’s redemption)
29:07 – Western vs “jungle movie” framing + Home Alone parallels
39:16 – Is it a Christmas film? The big debate
51:33 – Advent calendar gift & Hans fall trivia
54:19 – Production trivia: Moonlighting, Sinatra, casting choices, loud blanks, $5m fee
63:13 – FX, explosions, and alternate titles (e.g., “Crystal Jungle”)
72:17 – Rating vs Elf and Home Alone
74:33 – Outro

Intro, Christmas episode setup & host banter

Woohoo! Die Hard. Still great. Yeah. Hey, what do you say we make it a doublefeature? What else you rent? Die Hard 2.Joey, this is Die Hard one again. But we watch it a second time and it’s Die Hard 2. Joey, we just saw it andand it would be cool to see it again. Yeah,the Education Lounge podcast.Welcome to our Christmas episode. And if you were watching our Christmas episode last year where we did Elf, you’ll haveknown that Andrew, our house film buff and editor of the podcast, suggested wedo what he calls a Christmas film. It’s a Christmas film. We won’t get into that.Um, so if you remember from last year, we are going to go through Die Hard today. The story breakdown, thecharacter arcs, and whether it really is a Christmas film. It really is. I don’t think it is. We’re also joined bySanta. Santa. Santa. Yeah. Ho ho ho. He’s just going to be doing that. He’sgoing to do that the whole time. That’s all he’s going to say. He’s not going to say anything else. No, that’s the bit. He might say, “I’ve got a machine gun.”And then ho ho ho ho ho. in an Alan Rickman voice,but we’ll see how that goes. So, nine.We don’t know what character he’s playing. He looks like me in like 20 years if I wore a red hat.

First watches and cinema screening memories

Well, let’s look at your your Christmas jumper. That’s um You be kay That’s um uh Die Hard related.It’s Die Hard related. I wanted the ho ho ho, I’ve got a machine gun. Yeah. Would we have had to blur that?Maybe. I don’t know. Yeah. Yeah. Might be. Okay. Maybe. Anyway, mine’s not really Die Hard related, butit’s it’s got a picture of him on it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s got John on it. Yeah. That’s why I got it.I’m appreciated. Um, now I’ve only seen this film,I think, twice. Yeah. The second of which being yesterday and today.The first of which probably back at uni. Yeah. Yeah. um a while ago on the small screen both times. Well,you had it on a really small screen the other day. You had on your little had it on this on the iPad. Yeah. On the iPad. Umbut yeah, yeah, I’ve never done not done a big screen viewing of it. No, I watched it the first time I watchedit. I was I came to it quite late. So I came to it after you u maybe when I was like late 20s. I actually hadn’t seenDie Hard. It was one of those like big gaps in my knowledge. And they had a showing at the Prince Charles Cinema. Great cinema. So you saw it first time in a cinema?In a cinema. Wow. like an like a film print of it and it was like when was there a Christmas time or was it It was a Christmas time. It was part oftheir Christmas film season. Um they think it’s a Christmas film. So do I. Uhyeah, it was it was fantastic and like on the big screen as well. It like it pops. It really does.I can imagine. How about you, John? I’ve seen it once when I was a child, but I can’t rememberwhen when exactly. And then recently it took me 3 days to watch it. It’s quite long. three days to watch it.Yeah, cuz cuz I was doing it before Well, I was doing it before bed and then like I kept falling asleep and it’s notcuz it’s boring cuz it was like Well, he was he was delivering presents obviously.Yeah. Yeah. He’s always tired this time of year.Yeah. And whipping the elves, you know, I get into Yeah. Especially buddy. He’s the worstone. They’re not making the chips fast enough.That took me a second. Yeah. Yeah. Those Nvidia GPUs like they’re reallytaking the time. Yeah. Um Yeah. So I watched it recently. Iplayed the game quite a lot. The other game. Yeah. There was like a I think it might have been PlayStation.They do spin-off games for all like the big films. Yeah. I played it. It was really difficult. Ijust remember it was I kept dying. Hard or normal? Just Just normal. Just normalwith a vengeance. Yes. With Samuel L. Jackson. Yeah.The third run through. Yeah. But yeah, I remember I I think that was actually probably my first introduction to it was playing the gamebefore watching the movie. Fair enough. That would have been well what likeit was a long time ago. I think it PS1. Yeah. Cuz the film actually came out88 even before our time. Just about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, before we before I was born.Before I was before all of us were born. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I thought you might be older. No, you’reyou’re 89, are you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fine. End of 89. So, it came out a year before I was born.I really like it. It’s a great film. And that’s the end. That’s um one thing I wanted to pick up on um

Score talk: Ode to Joy, Japan link, festive motif

is the score. Okay. Um we spoke about this a bit yesterday.And so the the the building that they’re in is called Nak Nakato Plazaand it’s a like a Japanese business. I think it’s was itI think it’s sort of like a it’s it’s because a lot of business a lot of Japanese businesses were coming acrossthen Sony came across to LA around that sort of time. There’s a big influx of like Japanese businesses. I think it’swhere Nike went over there as well. That sort of time and it’s um I think it’s a Fox building.Yes. So So that’s where they So I have as as we’ve had every year I have a bunch of random facts which wecan get into later on but one of them is that yes it’s the Fox building. Foxcharged rent to themselves. Oh yeah.Okay. And it was their actual building. So the phone numbers on there were real in 88really and they got tons and tons of people calling because everyone calls numbers as soon as they see it on screen. Yeah. So they they ended up changing itbut the actual numbers and everything on the screen were real. So people could literally call the Nakatoma Plaza or Foxbuilding and just pester and pester them. Yeah. Jarro.Um, so yeah, the reason they mentioned the Japanese thing is the score isadapted from Beethoven’s O to Joy. Yeah. Which which plays a big part in uh in a crucial scene.Yeah. When he sees the, you know, the vault for the first time.Merry Christmas. They play that in full then, I think. But they’re humming it from the verybeginning. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um Rickman. Rickman. Umso, O to Joy from Beethoven was completed in 1824. It’s based on a poemby Frederick Schiller and it’s got themes of peace, hope, and unity, not Christmas.All themes of Christmas. Yeah. Uh but there’s a Japanese tradition that thepiece B right the piece basically became uh a beloved New York uh New Year’sfestive season staple in Japan after German prisoners of WorldWar I shared it with locals. So there’s a link between the plaza, the business, the Japanese businessman, German I thinkis um Adam Rickman’s character German. Yeah, he’s German. Yeah. Um, and nowit’s a traditional part of Japanese Christmas celebrations. So, there’s a whole link between all the differentOkay. things in there based on the score. It’s a good score. Yeah. I thought that was interesting.I like it. Yeah. Yeah. I like that fact. So,

Economic storytelling: limo scene, surname change, character setup

we can dive into one of a few things. We got dive into the plot. We can dive intocharacter arcs, um, symbolism. Done a bit of symbolism in that score there.Okay. Um, where would you like to start? I I’m going to start with how economicit is in its storytelling like uh Okay. Lots of films will overexlain things andwill have big chunky scenes of dialogue where they explain everything. Whereasyou find out about his divorce very early on when he’s in the front with the with the um what’s it the limodriver. I can’t remember his name but who’s great. I don’t know his name but but you know and they have this little back and forth and it’s a very realisticconversation and the fact that he’s sitting in the front of the limo sort of makes shows that he’s an everyman. He’s not like a hoyy toy. Kindof gives a lot of character. And then when they when you realize that his wife has changed her name when helooks it up on the cuz they didn’t need to do that, you know, when they type it into the machine. They didn’t need to do that. They couldhave had them talk about the divorce. He could have been explaining it like more to the guy on the plane or whatever. Butinstead, he types it in, realizes she’s changed her name, and that that is like cut him really deep. And I quite likehow economic that is. how without saying anything, you go, he’s divorced, he’scut up about it, and he’s annoyed that she’s gone back to her old name. You know, like it leaves the the viewer to figure itout rather than explicitly being like, this is what happened.Cute toy. Yeah, you have to take a leak. It’ll even help you find your zipper.Christ. Is he divorced or is he like they’rejust marriages going through? Oh, well there yeah I I don’t maybe they’re not divorced but they’re definitely you knowseparated by you know by by distance because his the New York cop married to his job and then she’s uhmarried to her job in a sense and then the kids are sort of in between. Yeah. I like that bit where the kids pick upthe phone and then they say this is the MLAN residence. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it’s like they

Barefoot/grounding symbolism & first Gruber–McClane encounter

still identify with the family. Yeah. So the kids are still in it but thenand then he is but then the wife isn’t. Yeah.There’s a So on the plane he get he gets toldcrunch your scrunch your toes up on carpet. We’re all barefoot by the way.You can’t see it but No, please don’t shoot the gloss. And your and your feet are fists orYeah. fists with your feet. Yeah. But you know what that that is? That’s to do with grounding, isn’t it?If you know about grounding or like panic attacks, things like that. Um Yeah. Well, it sort of deionizes you.It’s also a a thing a technique used for um time travel. What’s it called? Jet.Time travel. You know when you’ve time traveled. This feels like a fever dream cuzSanta’s next talking about time travel. Yeah. Well, but but it’s a well-known grounding technique.Yeah. Which is why he’s not wearing shoes throughout the whole thing. Yeah. Um and the beginning of the film, everylike you’re saying, everything is up in the air. The family’s up in the air. They’re in different locations. The kids are whatever.And throughout that process, he becomes from being ungrounded Mhm. to grounded. No, I love the the barefootthing. It’s really good because you’ve got this tough character, but there’s like a sense of vulnerability because ofthe feet. It shows the bare feet. Yeah. And then that’s exposed with the glasslater on.Apparently the scene with um we’re sort of jumping all around, but the scene That’s fine. That’s fine. But we’regoing thematically, but the the scene with Alan Rickman uh uh meeting Mlan uhfor the first time, Hans Gruber meeting John Mlan for the first time. God, it’s one of my facts you’re going to take again. Sorry. No, go for it.Uh that wasn’t meant to be. No, fully improvised. It improvised, but that is crucial because it’s the moment when he looksdown at his feet and sees that he’s got no shoes on. I’m a cop from New York.New York? Yeah. got invited to the Christmas party bymistake. Who knew?H better being called your pants down, huh?I’m John Mlan. you’re uhclay. Then you get the shoot the glass scenelater on and it all sort of ties together so nicely. But again, very little of that is spoken. All of it isjust like you see him look down, you see him clock the feet and it’s, you know, that scene’s only like 2 minutes long.Arguably the best scene there. Yeah. Yeah. He wasn’t even meant to be there. No, no, no.Yeah. But it’s that kind of that tightness of storytelling where you just cut to the chase and you show they alsoshow the geography really well in in all those things. You know the the poster of nude pictures in the on the wall whichhe sort of walked past and he looks the first time and he taps it the second time, taps it the third time. That’s toshow that’s to tell you this is where he is in the building because a lot of the stories above are obviously likebuilding sai and they’re quite indistinguishable but you need to know that he’s in this place and this place is a bit of a safe. SoI must have missed that. Yeah, it’s it’s a good little bit of storytelling because you’re like it places you otherwise you’re just goingthrough all these like random floor because they all look roughly the same. So it’s just one little bit ofinformation where it’s like no no he’s he’s all right here. This is where he never gets shot. This is where he, youknow, he knows where he is. Yeah. And it was a building site at that time as well. Yeah. Yeah.I’m pretty sure. Yeah. Santa.I agree. Ho ho ho. Three. Ho ho ho.Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho.

Quick plot recap, cops/FBI enter, the “monkey in the wrench”

So, just before we go into the character breakdown, and I know we’ve kind of touched on these different pointsalready, but maybe we should very quickly summarize the plot, theoverarching story. Mhm. Um, be before we go into characterdetails. Sure. So, do you want to Okay. Yeah. Uh, I think the main overarching themeis reconciliation and separation. I think that’s and the plot from start tofinish. I think very quickly, very briefly, John Mlan is a New York-based cop whohas separated for whatever reason uh from his wife who is in LA who’s a veryhighf flying businesswoman. She’s like second in command there. Um and he fliesover for a Christmas party because it’s a Christmas filmand we wouldn’t have Santa here if it wasn’t. Um, I forgot. No, we all forgot that Johnpart of my imagination. I thought didn’t think anyone else could see him. So, he flies over, gets a limo in, andvery quickly things turn south. He’s got he’s barefoot. Obviously, we touched on that because of his scrunching his toes.Um, they have a little conflict, him and his wife, that sort of shows that stillthat, you know, he he hasn’t quite successfully reconciled that yet. Umthe terrorists come in, take hold of Nakati Plaza, they seem very slick. UmHans Gruber leads them. Alan Rickman, fantastic performance. And first ever performance. First ever performance, which is insane.Um they take over the plaza. Mlan escapes. He was never really on theguest list, so he’s not a head that needs to be counted for. He escapes. He gets away. uh through a series of youknow machinations he gets a walkie-talkie which is quite crucial because then he’s not just talking to himself anymore. He’s talking tois it Al? Yeah, the cop who is like constantly saying these lines like,”Damn it, Mlan, you’re going to you’re going to be the death of me, Mlane. You hang in there, buddy.Look, I love you. So do a lot of the other guys.” Well, you hang in there, man. You hearme? You hang in there. Yeah. Thanks, partner.Rickman or Gruber discovers this. There’s a sort of three. They’re all on the same radio frequency. the policeeventually get involved and then from then on it’s about kind of the inadequacies of cops. Yeah. And and thenthe FBI like there’s a big moment when he says, you know, ladies and gentlemen, I give you the FBI. And they sort ofjust they’re like they’re so inept. You ask for miracles, dear. I give youthe FBI. Was it Johnson and Johnson? Is it Johnson and Johnson? Thompson. Thompson.Johnson and Johnson. That’s another fact. I I’ll find it later on. Um, yeah. And they’re messing everything up. Mlanis the what they call him, the monkey in the wrench, the fly in the ointment, you know, that that thing. And he’s the lone guy who is going toultimately solve everything. Yeah. But the ultimate reconciliation is that he I actually think the the emotional heartof the film is when he’s talking to is Al, did you say? I think it’s Al. Yeah.Yeah. Over the walkie-talkie. And he he tells him about, you know, how he shot this child, 13-year-old. And then Mlan also saysthat he wants to say he’s sorry. And that’s sort of quite an important moment that he he realizes that the thing isthat he said I love you these this so many times, but he never said I’m sorry. He never sort of apologized for who hewas. And he’s always that his stubbornness was getting in the way of them being together. Tell her that umthat she is the best thing that ever happened to a bum like me.She’s heard me saying I love you a thousand times. She never heard me say I’m sorry.I want you to tell her that, Al. I want you to tell her that uh John said that he was sorry.Okay, you got that, man. Ultimately, that all then wraps up. Gruber falls off a building. We get, youknow, and um the redemption arc for the the police officer. He just gets toshoot somebody which he well he gets to shoot somebody to save other people to save other peoplerather than shooting someone to Yes. Yeah. Yeah. as an accident as a mistake. But imagineimagine if that was a white cop. This film would be like that scene wouldbe like um not again. It’s lucky that it’s a big Aryan man. Heshoots this big sort of these all these guys look like sort of mad bodybuilders. I was going to say ifMebs from uh podcast number two, Forest, if Mebs was on the podcast, our thumbnail would be likeYeah. just sit with him with a long blonde hair. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And ultimately that ends Oh, I forgot tomention that uh Hans Gruber sort of is trying to masquerade as this political that’s a sort of a side plot where he’smasquerading as like a political activist which is a bit of a smoke screen and that’s how he tricks the FBI.Yeah. Yeah. and and that’s why he’s creating all this, but he’s actually just a, you know, common criminal.Well, in a bit, that’s the thing. And he I don’t think he likes that fact. I think he likes to differentiate himself between the low status of John Mlan andhe’s like high status with classical education, you know, like you see him sidling up to the um the boss uh what’s his name? It’snot Nakatomi. It’s it’s it’s the the Japanese boss who gets killed. Don’t know his name. can’t remember hisname but he sidles up to him and they’re talking about the you know I’ve got that suit you know I’ve got the same suit as your you know it’s a nice suit you know I’ve got andthen he says I’ve got two he’s sort of trying to put himself in that status which I think is quite interestingnice suit John Phillips LondonI have two myself so that’s that’s sort of a potted version of the plot I think yeah Iprobably rambled but you know well we do when we don’t That’s what I’m here for.So, going from that into character arcs, symbolism, redemption,character arc of Al we’ve kind of done. Yeah. Um, obviously John Mlan is the themain character arc we should probably look at, but I don’t know. Alan Rickman might be amore interesting one cuz we’ve kind of we kind of know John Mlan’s Well, they’re foils. I think they’refoils for each other. So, they’re meant to they represent different sides cuz in they’re almost exactly theopposite but also very similar. What in what ways do you think they’resimilar? They’re both pretty violent for a start. Yeah, they’re Yeah, they’re both violent.Um they both don’t seem to like fit in just yet. Mhm.I think they’re two sides of the same coin. I think is that not the idea

McClane vs Gruber: foils, status, and arcs (plus Al’s redemption)

or do we not do we not agree with that? Yeah, I I can see I can see that. I I I sort of I’m the problem is I’m I’malways I’m very rarely actually even though it is about um Kruber and umMlan I’m always I’m I’m often drawn back to thinking about him and his wife because that is the sort of the thingthat he that’s the thing that he holds most important and and the whole I think the thing that means the most to him isis her and that’s why he’s constantly trying to like he he’s so worried that they’re going to find out that he’srelated to you know that there’s a you know that’s the person he cares cares about cuz he knows what’s going to happen. He knowsthere’s like a sophistication with Hans Grouper, but I think at various points in the film, it sort of makes out thatMlan is maybe cleverer. He’s he’s the smartest guy in the room like really he he he’s inventive. ifhe’s constantly like the the cellar tape, you know, the tape at the back and you know, he’she is, but there and even actually even in the scene where you think uh Hans, you know, the famous scene you where youthink Gruber’s got the better of him. Mhm. He act Mlan gives him an empty gun. Youknow, Gruber very quickly says, “Oh, I’m what’s his name? What’s his says like Clay?” He says he’s an American. He putson a dodgy American accent. And it it’s it’s it’s very clever storytelling because neither of them knowplanned as well and but neither of them know what they look neither character know what theyhe’s a mystery man with the voice and Mlan hasn’t spent long at the party. Hewas in and out almost the party. So he he doesn’t know every face there but but Guba Gruber knows what John Mlanlooks like. No, no. Sounds sounds like Well, it’s freaking I think it’s obviouslike I’m saying one person does know, the other one doesn’t. Uh I think at that point they’ve talkedthey’ve talked on the radio in different accents, though. Yes. So, at first he John doesn’t know. Do you think his accent’s that far awayfrom his No, I was like I was going to say I can I’m an American.I’m just I’m just a common guy. I’m just a Can I have a smoke?Hello. Nelson Mandela was in that film. I would like us to lookAlan Rickman’s accents in that during the whole film are quite funny. Like he tries to put on this likeEuropean one and then he goes back into like Alan Rick and then he goes intoBut they they said they put him in that scene because they thought he had a decent American accent.Yeah. That’s why that’s why that scene obviously it’s okay. It’s kind of possible Isuppose but but you realize why Mlan’s seen seen through it becauseyou know Yeah. I think I think there’s a sort of disguise thing toso things not been as they seem. So Mlan ishe’s a he’s meant to be a rough figure in a sense like compared to his wife evenand yet he’s he’s super smart. He’s like the most clear thinking personin in the room in the whole building actually. But then groupers sort of presented asreally slick but then the mask slips. Yeah. When things go don’t go to plan andactually Mlan like outsmarts him. So I think that’s like that’s the character arc is you think that John Mlan is thisor whatever. Yeah. you stereotype him and then it’s the same with Hans the German villainsuper um organized and on it and logical andthen it sort of as like I think that’s brought out whenespecially when John Mlan meets his wife again and then I think she says to HansGubber, “Oh, you’re just a common criminal.After all your posturing, all your little speeches, you’re nothing but a common thief.I am an exceptional thief, Mrs. Mlan. And since I’m moving up to kidnapping, you should be more polite.So, the moss has fully slipped there. Yeah. And he hates that she sort of outs himthere. And then um Mlan comes in and and like like you said, he reveals that he’soutsmarted them with the the cowboy thing. And all throughout the whole thing, like it’s clear that Han Hansgroup is making fun of the fact that he’s a cowboy, but eventually it’s that takes him down.Quick draw. Yeah. This is what I was looking for cuz it is based onum it’s based on a book. Yeah. Called the glass. I’m trying to find it.the Glass Tower or something. It’s It’s got something like that. It wasn’t. Apparently, the book is a lot more Well, obviously it doesn’t have thehumor that um someone like Bruce Willis brings. And I I think that the Alcharacter is less of a thing. I I think, you know, there loads of details obviously that are missing. There’s noexplosion. I think it’s really really really different. Yeah. as far as I’m aware like it’s it’s like they’ve takenI don’t think they do the double bluff of um political criminal versus normal criminal as well. So there’s it’s one ofthose ones where they take the basic premise but that it’s quite a broad premise anyway.So yeah, this the thing I was trying to find is about him being sort of like a a modernday cowboy. So wehave references with the epic and and you know he calls him Mr. cowboy andjust another American who thinks he’s John Wayne. That’s they’re all and there’s the Roy Rogers thing. The Roy Rogers thing as well. They’reall in there. Um but the idea is if you strip away the skyscraper and Christmas,then it’s basically a western just in disguise.Still the cowboy, Mr. Mlan, Americans all alike. Well, this time John Waynedoes not walk off into the sunset with Grace Kelly. Yes, I think I think it’s that. I thinkit is that and I think it’s another thing as well. I think the the westernthing is quite obvious because it’s the big bad comes into town. the law enforcement always in all all westernsare powerless to stop them and it’s usually either a group or a singular like a dirty Harry or something uh loneranger is is very much the only force that can stop them and save this townand it’s westerns are often usually self very self-contained they they’re very you know some of them do get very epicand go very wide but a lot of them take place in one town bad guy comes in townhe’s wearing all black you know he’s and they’re often suave as Well, they’re often sort of shown as high status and

Western vs “jungle movie” framing + Home Alone parallels

the maverick is often low status. So, I do agree that there is and all of this takes place in onebuilding. Yeah, there’s a lot of western there. But is an interesting the director John McTanon said is that he said we’re notshooting this like uh an action movie or a skyscraper movie. He didn’t say western. He said this is a jungle movie.This is a movie where you’re in the jungle andthat’s how they kind of shoot it. Everything’s moving. Everything, the camera is constantly moving and you’reconstantly moving through this sort of labyrinth. You’re kind of a bit confused as to where everything is initiallyuntil all the geography becomes a bit clearer. Mhe wanted to shoot it in the similar way that you would snake through forests with like all the big piles of um youknow industrial debris and things like that and the plastic sheeting. The a really good example of that is where theyou know the saw scene where he has the little he turns the buzz saw on and it’s like a bit of a game of cat and mouseand the guy hears the saw and comes over and then you know they have that fight on the stairwell. That’s very that’sthat’s how a jungle scene would that’s almost like someone laying a trap in the jungle and then someone going throughthe trees and it realizing it’s a trap and then it’s too late. And I think just like Home Alonejust like there is a bit of Home Aloneyess there with the glass.And also the glass is very Home Alone but from the other side which is you know an unusual twist on it and also thethe sort of bomb that he makes you know that like and then dropping it down the elevator shaft. Oh, the C4 withthe Yeah, that’s quite it’s quite like a heightened version of a Home Alone. It’s the non-carto version of HomeAlone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. I didn’t really think about the connection between thosetwo films. Yeah. Yeah. Those like four years apart.Yeah. It feels weird. It feels like one is securely in the 80s and one isYeah. very much of the ‘ 90s. Very much. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. All right. Yeah.Yeah, I didn’t really think about that in the like Rambo on a western. Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah, I think so.I think we kind of figure out Mlan’s character arc. Mhm. Uh how the policeman verystraightforward. Yeah, he’s a straightforward guy. He’s a straight talking guy. Shoots from the hip.Damn it, Mlan. These hostess Twinkies. Oh, you do have a sort of redemptionthing, don’t you? Don’t you with that with Yeah. Yeah, we spoke about the redemption with that. I think I think it’sfairly straightforward. Yeah. What about Hans? I think the I think the key to HansGruber in terms of not just him being revealed. That was that’s a big that’s abig deal for him and that’s a big mask that slips as you said. I think there’s a key scene in the film where he shootsum the Japanese boss and the Japanese boss is set up as a really nice guy. He’s setup as a decent guy very quickly. They another bit of economy there. They sort of they just set him up in a couple ofscenes. You see that he’s like decent. You see that he’s good. He seems veryhumble. And then they get Gruber to kill him. I think that’s quite clever becauseif he didn’t kill the boss, you might be on Gruber’s side throughout the whole film. You might be kind of hoping thatGruber pulled it off, but because he’s done something in such cold blood and to seemingly a benign character.It’s not like when he kills the guy um who’s doing cocaine. It It’s not likeit’s not like that moment because that moment is someone being killed by their own hubris and, you know, by being like, “Baby, I’m the you know, I’m thedealmaker.” You know, that’s that that’s not you’re made to not like him in the beginning. They need to have that seededin that he is at the heart. No matter how smooth he is, how charming he is, heis at at the heart of it the bad the bad guy. Mhm. I think.Yeah. Yeah. Cuz he could be seen as a good guy if that didn’t happen. Try to take down a multinational,especially if he stays a political terrorist. That muddies the waters completely cuz then you’re like, well, I don’t know. I don’t know what thesituation was like. I don’t know how bad both sides were, but they need to strip all that away from him. They need to strip that facadeto make him sort of reveal him for who he is. So, do you think it’s like they theythey sort of go in opposite ways. Mlan, you think he’s not that clever and he gets clever and clever? Yeah.Um and and status as well. And for HR, it’s the opposite. You think he starts offthere, but you as you mask after mask, layer after layer comes off. Yeah. Yeah. And they sort ofalmost as his bodyguards are being picked off one by one, it’s like the shell around him gets weaker and weaker.Yeah. Sort of like a, you know, like a Voldemorty sort of vibe. You know, it is um I think it is abit of that. And I think I think no one else could have played it apart from Adam. And Ireally No, I can I can throw another fact in here. He he was throw it. He was incredibly nervous about hisperformance the whole way through. He thought he was flopping it. He thought he’d completely flopped. He was completely nervous about hisperformance. And he’s turned out to be one of the most solidified villaincharacters of all time. And it directly meant that he got Harry Potter and Snape. Like it hethe way he moves is unlike any villain prior to that. He sort of sweeps in every time he movelike the way Mlan moves is sort of low and stealthy and light on his feetbut like there’s like some heft to him. He just sort of glides glides and they do that in HarryPotter with with his swooping. They’re constantly utilizing the way he moves.The odd stiff but glidey sort of way. It’s it’s and he’s making so many big choices in the in theI like how he touches everything. Yeah.The code please. And he fondles that he fondles his gun and he f you know everything everything’s central for some reason.And he speaks slowly. He speaks a bit like Nel Mandela as we discussed. I’ll work on that impression. Potter.Potter. Yeah. I mean, I knew him from HarryPotter before before this. Yeah. Yeah. I probably was introduced to him. Yeah. And Love Actually as well. AnotherChristmas film. Yeah. He doesn’t really fit into that, does he?He’s He’s smooth enough, but he’s not I don’t know. just he’s not a big character. You still give like villain vibes.Yeah. Well, but then I think that’s quite a useful shortorthhand that lots of um directors use is they go, “Well,who’s going to come across as like not a great husband?” Even though Alan Rickman actually is, you know, even though AlanRickman in real life was apparently the nicest guy. Um yeah, it’s it’s interesting that theysometimes type cast those sorts of people and they go, “Well, you know, well, they did that with Harry Potter as well because all the way through until Idon’t know even is it is it book film film seven maybe where it reveals thathe’s been protecting them the whole time and he was friends with Harry’s dad and like you you his character and hisdemeanor takes you one way. Yeah. And then suddenly it reveals actually he’s been good.Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Not in this one.All you got to do is pull the trigger. Come on.Put down the gun and give me my detonators.Well, well, well, I think we should get down to the point.We’ve we’ve rambled enough. While we’re all here. Yeah. The showdown.Christmas film or not a Christmas film, John? I think it’s a Christmas film. I thinkit’s a Christmas film and I think project is a [ __ ]Merry Christmas. You’re going to have to put a thing of that headline up here somewhere because that it’s going to be very out ofcontext for a lot of people. Well, yes. Yeah. It’s um what was it? It was um there was a Guardian and they did a likea survey of like It wasn’t of UK of UK um people citizens. Um, I think it was onlylike 2,000, so it’s not a huge uh sample size. The headline thing, which I think they know what they’re doing. They’regoing the grabbiest headline was um, Die Hard is not a Christmas film because ofwhat 2,000 morons think.So, um, I don’t think it’s a Christmas film in the traditional sense of aChristmas film. I think it is I think it’s like an an anti- Christmasfilm at Christmas time. Okay. Cuz it’s not it’s not like um I guess itends with family happy Christmas trees, whatever. But it’s not um I don’t know.It’s an action film set at Christmas that and it was released. It was a summer blockbuster, but that but that’s not unusual because that’s whenblockbusters released. So like that that doesn’t really hold it to any of that. It has been fully adopted by pretty muchevery cinema chain and you know doing re-releases along with Gremlins and things like that which might not beconsidered Christmas films as well as it’s been sort of in the years umcoming after it’s it’s been put into those schedules. The I I can see the arguments for it not being a Christmasfilm because actually no I can’t see the actual I was being generous there. I was I waslooking this sort of stuff up because I might have changed my mind I think.

Is it a Christmas film? The big debate

But if you were to take Home Alone and remove Christmas,it’s a thief/comdy film. I think not. Not necessarily a Christmas film.I think Home Alone is a very good um comparison. Comparison. Yeah. Becauseyou got similar Well, the the situation only arrives in both films because of Christmas. theowner like yeah what who’s going to an office Easter party who’s going to an office the reason why it’s an officeparty that is crucial to the plot because it is you know the reason why he’s separated from his wife is becauseshe’s become so successful and he can’t handle that and it’s because of that business so you don’t get like officesummer party but an office Christmas party is a thing it’s kind of crucial to the plot it’s the reason why all the police are sortof not not in it and like and and you can you can sort of excuse some of thepoor shoddy police work by the fact that it’s the holidays. Mhm. I think it’s kind of crucial for theplot that it’s an office Christmas party that brings them together. Yeah. They also I mean like there’s there’sthe little trappings of things like I think about five or six Christmas songs get playedthere. There are Yeah. There’s obviously references to Santa, you um and there’sthere’s so many trappings of a Christmas film about family and unity as well, which are crucial parts. I would arguethat if Die Hard isn’t a Christmas film, Home Alone is not Christmas film eitherbecause they could just be going on a summer holiday because it could be that could be a summer that that actually is almost likeit’s weaker. It’s a weaker construct because actually it doesn’t need to. But then but then has the same thing with withthe police about the police not being on it because it is Christmas and like it being kind of deserted because it’s Christmas. I mean there certainly similar levels ofviolence in both films. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Version of Home Alone did you watch?Well, even in Home Alone Even in Home I think Home Alone 2, they they were like, “How many times wouldthe the wet bandits have died?” Oh, technically the brick to the head from like the 20thfloor. It was about six to eight times. Yeah. So, I should put their death counts fairly similar.Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think I might be comingaround. You might be. I think because in my mind Christmas film is like, you know, elf Home Alone like funnyfamily. You can watch light-hearted children. Yeah. Rather than terrorists. Oh, it’s certainly not a a family film,but I can see why people have really uh coped it as a Christmas film.I can see why people have, you know, pulled it into that because there are so many of the trappings,there are so many of the plot devices of Christmas and there’s so many of the familiar themes of Christmasand it’s not I I don’t think Christmas is incidental to it at all. I think it’s like interwoven and kind of crucial tothe plot. Also, I think you know the to turmoil with the family is obviouslyquite a common thing at Christmas. It’s got the highest levels of like divorce anduh conflict, but in Christmas films, it’s always where the family comes together. That’s usually the point of most Christmasfilms is the families eventually come together, which is which it does do in this. It does. It does do in this. And even like even some small thingslike it it snows at the end. All the bank bombs like flutter down and it’s awhite Christmas all of a sudden.It’s using symbolism the whole time to go Christmas. This is, you know, this is part of the Christmas cannonand it’s got some of the anti-corporates and corporate stuff in um that wasevident in Elf. Yeah. Yeah. um which is quite again quite a common theme in Christmas films. So Ithink it’s almost got all of Yeah, it’s got the corporate accessing. It’s got umpeace and goodwill over overlaying the greeds from each of the characters andthe Christmas thing is kind of like a ironic thing. Yeah.In in the film. But I do think Yeah. I think if Home Alone is a Christmas film, this has to be as well.Yeah. That’s my That’s my I think that’s the key argument. I think the fact that they both have such similar throughlines, you know, such similar reasons for reasons for someone to beisolated or reason for someone to be, you know, it’s like an adult version ofYeah. Home Alone except you’re I don’t know if building Alone, whatever we want to call it. It’s justthe building was kind of crucial to the whole thing as well. I was just on a little side tangent. They the poster didn’t actually haveBruce Willis on it initially cuz he wasn’t a big deal. Do you know who was meant to play him? Uh Clint Eastwood and Richard Gear.Frank Sinatra. Oh yeah, Frank Sinat. Yeah, it went it went round the houses quite a lot. But all of those were were attached as well.Um yeah, and it would think would make sense with the whole cowboy, wouldn’t it?But it wouldn’t have the humor. And and I I I do think that there’s a crucial thing that Bruce Willis does which a lotof actors would fall under the pressure of is saying things out loud. He’sspeaking to himself for the first before he gets to walk. He’s just speaking to himself and he’s revealing plot. He’srevealing character. He’s revealing all of that. A lot of actors couldn’t pull that off, but he’s talking to himself the wholetime with this these quippy oneliners, but he’s revealing a lot with them. And then they give him the walkie-talkie to make more sense of it. Otherwise, he’djust seem a bit mad. I know what a TV dinner feels like.I think that that is I think Bruce Willis’s and the sort of innate sadness with Bruce Willis. Clint Eastwooddoesn’t seem that sad. He seems quite happy that he’s been, you know, he’s going Grand Dino. He’s grumpy.But that’s old Clint Eastwood. That’s That’s not the Clint Eastwood that would have stepped into this film. That theClint Eastwood that stepped into this film would be The Dirty Harry. you know, coming off the back of all of those films,I’m not too glued up on on it, but just different personas. Whereas Bruce Bruce Willis seems quite sad. Eventhough he seems kind of there’s bravado there, when he’s like close to tears, you believe him. You’re like, “Yeah,he’s he seems a bit cut up about this.” But yeah, that was just not done enough grounding. That’s whynot done enough grounding or too much at the wrong time. Yeah.If you were to rename that whole movie instead of Die Hard and you called it a Christmas at Nakatami Plaza, then itwould Well, the the Die Hard wasn’t actually a phrase before the film happened.No, it was just like a I think it was a car battery called the Die Hard. Um, whichis why people they didn’t want to name it that title initially because everyone would be like cuz Sears I think a shopin America had a car battery called the Die Hard which didn’t die. This is before the film.Yep. And they were they were like, “Oh, why would you want to call it after a battery?” It’s like calling a film Energizer or Duracell or, you know,Duracell Bunny, you know, like people over here be like, “That’s quite a famous battery.It doesn’t sound good.” And and it didn’t in I think in France it was called the Crystal Jungle.Um which which ties back because I don’t think I don’t think Die Hard would translate. I think they’ll be likeDoesn’t make much sense in English either. No, but it it sounds good, doesn’t it?And it means that you can say a good day to die hard. Die hard with a vengeance. They all sound kind of impactful.Except he doesn’t die. No, never dies hard. Well, one person who does die hard is Hans Grouper.Now, I’ve got a little cuz it’s Christmas time. I’ve got a little present.Can I Yeah. Yeah. Go for it. Oh, hopefully it’s a Christmas gun. Holdon. We can put it. Can you Can you give this to Project and go, “Ho, ho, ho.” Ho ho.It’s for It’s for Merry Christmas. Thank you, Santa. Creepy creepy. We’ve got your presentfrom last year still on the shelf, though. Yeah, but you know, got to have a present every year. You don’t just say to someone, “I gotyou a present last year.” Well, no. Same with Sorry, Mom. Same with kept it. We’ve not opened it. We’ve left it on theThis one I think you have to open. Okay. And you should probably arrange it now.I mean, we can fast forward. I can fast forward.No way. Is this literally Nakati Plaza? Yeah. Uh, and it’s an advent calendar.So, open it up. Okay. It’s um It’s an advent calendar of Nakati Plaza withyou countdown the days with the falling hands. Groover. Oh. Uh, we might need some scissors forthis one. Use your teeth, PJ. Get those Get those veneers around it.We got it. It’s always a smart way to do things, animal.I feel like it should be fairly easy to put together. Yeah, you got to put together on air.Sure. Cuz we want to have it up. Oh, wow. I’m proud, you can do it.You might have to zoom in on this when you edit. Yeah, I’ll zoom in on that. It’s quite fun, isn’t it? It is fun. Yeah. Well,should we go into the um some of the facts while we do this? Because I have a fact about this little guy.Okay. You know the slow motion bit where where he begins to fall.Yeah. Yeah. The slow motion bit where he begins to fall. Um obviously he’s on aon a wire and they’re counting like one two three drop.Mhm. They dropped him on one on purpose. what to get is a reaction just likeliteral terror you see at the beginning of the drop. Yeah. Is real.I think that that’s a really clever thing that um directors I would be so ready for that though. Like it’s just you hear it all the time,don’t you? Well, they they they purposely want to there’s plenty of films where they keep actors separateand surprise them with the other actor being there and to get a real a real reaction to it. To get a visceral reaction to itwas down, right? I think it’s the fourth. We’re revealing that. So, hold on. I’ll do the noise.It’s fun, isn’t it? I’m not sure how When are we releasing this? Are they not Are they not uh It’s not the 4th.I’m Don’t time you me to a day. I don’t want to. Well, we can’t release it on the normal time normal time of like 28th orwhatever. So, yeah, we’ll we’ll pretend it’s like theI don’t know 20th or something. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you want to be upside down surely.There you go. It’s good fun, isn’t it? That’s great. Yeah. We’re going to add that to uhadd that to your shelf. I don’t think we do that now. might uh the placement with the Santamight not be ideal. Let’s pop him here. We’ll put it there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, that’s one of the umit’s not the sturdiest. That’s one of the facts. Let’s um let’s take a look at some more. Have you watched Moonlighting? This thissitcom that he was on before Bruce Willis. Yeah, I haven’t. But I’m aware that the reason Well, I’m I’m aware that he wason it while they were shooting. Yeah. Is that one of your facts? Uh do you know why he could be on thefilm? because his co-star got pregnant at exactly the right time. Is that right? I did not know that. Yeah. Cibil Shepard. I don’t I’ve notseen No, it was a big It was a big show. He was very popular, but they were unsure as to whether he was going toAnd it’s a very different role as well. This Yes. Yeah. Um but they had him forlimited amounts of time for some of the shooting of Die Hard I believe because they were shooting they wereshooting parts of Moonlighting whilst um whilst whilst filming but that but thatmeant that they focus on some other characters and I think they might have introduced Al as like a

Advent calendar gift & Hans fall trivia

like beefed up his part so that you could have more cutaways of Al going you know damn it myou’re a good cop So funny. Yeah, he is. He’s good. He’s He’s cheesy, but in areally good way. Although although he’s cheesy now, would it have been cheesy in 80s?Maybe not. Probably not. I like his car wreck. That’s Yeah,that’s good. So, we spoke about Frank Sonatra. Die Hard’s based on a sequel toSonatra’s film, The Detective. Haven’t seen it. Neither have I. But he basically he had first contractual refusal to play therole. and he said, “I’m too old and too rich.” I think that makes sense. I mean,at that point, you’re just like, “Do I need to be doing this?” Also, there’s going to be quite a lot of stunt work, and even though you’re not going to bedoing your own stunt, it’s still going to be draining. Yeah. Did you know that um uh Bruce Willis istwo/3s deaf in one ear? No, I didn’t know that. Because of this film. Oh, they wanted So, the gunshots stuff thatyou hear, they’re blanks. They’re blanks that they they’re loud louder blanks.They they done something to them or whatever to make them louder. And he’s literally two/3s deaf in oneear because of the scenes in the film repeated trauma. They to wear hearing aids in other filmsto compensate. Oh wow. I did not know that. Yeah. Crazy. Uh can I tell you a little fact quickly?No, I think I think I think Bruce Willis was the highest paid actor at this pointfor this film. 5 million. 5 million. And they did it knowing that it would be broken like a couple ofweeks later. I think they knew that it it just needed to say it’s the highest paid, you know, he’s the highest.What was breaking it a couple of weeks later? I don’t know. But I I’m pretty certain that like because within a few years,Jim Carrey had broken it by four times, like 20 million. So I think it would I think the way things were going inHollywood at that moment it would have been broken you know next week. Um but that meant that they couldn’t affordquite a lot of the people that they might have wanted for some of the roles like big actors. So they ended up getting people from TVand people from British theater like Alan Rickman because they’re cheaper. So you end up casting for the characterrather than like the name. Yeah. Which is because you could have had a suave, you know, British actor who’s done loads offilm. But I think that’s better. You create the stars. It’s like when we hire people. Yeah. You you hire on Talan character, notnecessarily labels and whatever else. And that sort of innate, you know, thoseinnate characteristics that people can have cuz I think Alan Rickman has something in him that sort of reads as threateningor reads or read. Yeah. But they’re also moldable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. which people that are

Production trivia: Moonlighting, Sinatra, casting choices, loud blanks, $5m fee

um already really well known or Bruce Williff now they’rethey’ve been molded already and and it might interrupt with the film or what you’re trying to do because suddenly you’re in a Frank Sonatra filmor whatever that is. Yeah. Oceans 11 and things like that. He was sort bit of singing as well.Yeah. Bit of crewing. He could have sung a Christmas song at the end. It probably would have been better.Let it snow. Alan Rickman injured himself. Did he? So when they So when they dropped him asecond earlier earlier than he was expecting to be dropped, they forgot to put the crash map.No, he injured his knee when he um jumped from a small ledge. No, no, that wasearlier earlier in the shoot. Yeah, it doesn’t really compare with like the Tom Cruz breaking his leg andcontinuing. Yeah, Tom Cruz is just Jackie Chan one. Jackie Chan like the most he said like the mostterrifying stunt he did I think he like was sliding down that building. Oh yeah.Oh yeah. And that was all I was like I could have died from that one. Yeah. And then he fell three twoI can’t remember. I can’t. And there’s there’s also one where he falls off like some awnings.Oh gosh. And that’s rush hour too. Yeah. Yeah. I can’tproperly hairy. Apparently Jenzia are canceling Rush Hour. Really? Yeah. Why?Saying it’s racist. I I haven’t rewatched it to be fair, but I quite liked it. I don’t think you can really cancelthese films. Like there’s plenty similar to our time though. 80 something 89 90.I would have thought Russia would be like Russ or the 94. I think it would be like early 90s like maybe 93 or 94. Yeah, I would havethought. I I don’t know. I’ve given you these ones already actually. Fox obvious Fox chargedthemselves rent for Nakati Plaza. Uh and then you could ring them because the phone number was real.They use 55 is it 555 numbers now? Like that just definitely aren’t real or they use like a a weird code now beforenumbers. So they’re just not real cuz they very reason I think cuz everyone calls them.No, I I don’t know what they use but Bruce Willis was born in Germany so he’s actually the most German person.Yes. Yeah. Yeah. He’s like an army. His his parents like in the army, I think, or his dad was, I think.Yeah. Um, it shows. So, like the idea is that it’s meant to happen as a magical one night adventurelike a Midsummer Night’s Dream. Oh, yeah. Except at Christmas with guns andexplosions. Yeah. Yeah. Instead of fairies, but it is. Yeah. I like that. It’s a sort of self-containedand it it feels so cut off from the rest of LA like location wise as well, doesn’t it? It feelswell again the whole film’s in one but but but not just in one thing. It’s not just in one building in the middle of LA or in the middle of New York. It’slike it feels like it’s quite far away and quite hard to get to. You know, it feels like it’s remote inits setting anyway and then you have this and then it’s locked off because it’s got all these advanced security.So, it does have that that like completely hermetically sealed and I like I like the little detailwhere you know they’re at the top of the building and then you see the gun flashes and you go from like hearing these really loud blanks as you weresaying and like these really loud you know gunshots that made Bruce Willis deaf but you go down to ground level you’relike oh it’s just light it’s just like it doesn’t have the same impact it’s like suddenly you realize how remote they are and how like distance you justwouldn’t you wouldn’t even know what that was also reminds you of a Christmas tree Christmas lightsThat’s Yeah,you know, they weren’t going to explode the building. That was not part of the plot until the producer, uh, I think hisname is Joel Silva, came on and he said he wrote the script. He was like, I love the script. looks great, but it’s it’sinsane that we don’t blow up, but we’ve got a bit we’ve got this great building. We need to blow it up. Otherwise, what will people think?And he was right. He was right that actually you need that spectacle and you need that clip for the trailer and youneed that you need to sell it cuz if you just have that building if Alan Rickman if the if the denim of the film is AlanRickman just falls off a building and that’s it’s clever how they it’s a bit flat but you need thebombastic explosion of it all. They’re clever how they simulated the explosions, too,because they used like lighting from inside the building, strobe lighting, and thenloads of them all at once, and then they just superimposed the explosion on top. Very clever.Oh, the where Hans Griber’s name came from was a spy comedy in ‘ 66 calledArman Flint. They literally copied the same name. They didn’t even change. Oh, okay. Yeah. The marital argument wasimprovised. Ah, that’s that’s a really good scene. That’s quite a crucial again. All these all these crucialscenes seem to be improvised. Yeah, it’s always it’s always the ones that areYeah. Well, not planned that seem to be the most realistic. They literally just said just just go at each otherand it really works. Yeah. You really believe that they’re sort of all their problems are real.Yeah. And when that came, you know, from from Moonlighting is it’s the from the sitcomor series that he was in. Yeah. Yeah. Um obviously drawn inspiration from that and just put it into this role. ArnoldSchwarzenegger turned down the role. It would be I think it’d be a much worse film with him in it. But imagine him himyeah him delivering those sort of like comedic lines would be awful. And also then becomes like closer to a Commandofilm or a Rambo film. And you know, the director eventually did work with Arnold Schwarzenegger on action hero.There’s an actual there’s a dig in the in the film, isn’t there? What’s that? A dig at Schwarzenegger in the film.There’s enough something to enough explosives to orbitSchwarzenegger. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mention Rambo as well. I think theymention I think there’s a mention of Rambo in there somewhere. Uh I can’t remember. Yeah. I think I think there might be butI’m I can’t think where it might be. Right. A vaguely. Yeah. But it’s it’s interesting how thathe becomes a different kind of action hero, a different like not the musclebound like because Schwarzeneggerhad worked with um McTon on the previous film Predator and that sort of guy justdoes I don’t think it fit. He doesn’t also do you believe Schwarzenegger is a New York cop? I’m a New York copper. I’mjust a just cookie down. I’m just a New York couple. I’m an average Joe. Like I don’t think so. Idon’t think you are an average Joe. I think you are a muscle back. Like he But also his accent withand he’d look and he’d look too much like all the the henchmen. He’d make more sense as the henchmen. He’s too bigfor that. But like he he doesn’t he doesn’t suit that. You’d have to change the entire You’d have to change the villain. You’d have to change the entireand it wouldn’t work. I don’t think. No, I think Bruce Willis with the pathos really does does help.Yeah, a lot of things all just fell into place for it to work exactly how it works. Yeah. Prepare to die hard.Um, you mentioned Johnson and John. Johnson and Johnson. Not related. No relation.How you doing, man? I’m Agent Johnson. This is Special Agent Johnson. Oh, how you doing?No relation. I’m uh I’m Dwayne Robinson, LAPD. I’m in chargehere. Not anymore. Is it McTennon you said was a John Mcinnon? Yeah.Is a director. Not director. He’s a director. Director. He just liked the name Johnson so much that he put it in everywhere.Reginald Johnson in the cast. He kept having characters say it as a quiet inside joke so thatthe guy knew that he was talking about him. I don’t know who that is. Okay. But it is an inside joke and he justreally like the name Johnson. I like that. Yeah. The bit where we’re almost done. The bitwhere um he falls down the shaft. The elevator shaft. Yeah. The stunt man literally slipped andmissed. Oh dear. Yeah. No longer with us.Don’t know. Don’t know. I don’t think he died very hard. Oh. But umyeah. So the bit, you know, he falls and he misses that first bit and he catches himself which would bethat was real. What? That was real. Well, someone was able to someone obviously they’re like in wiresand stuff, I assume. Yeah. I don’t think they take your whole body weight with your Is it when he takes his whole body weight with his just likeYeah. Yeah. Yeah.They the stunt man was supposed to grab the first ledge and he missed it. He dropped further than they planned and he caught the lower one and the editorstitched it together. Yeah, the editing’s great on this. I think got nominated for an award for that.And stunt men are special though. They’re like absolute beasts. Yeah. Yeah. That’s their job, isn’t it?Yeah. Um that’s pretty much it. There’s the guy that um the henchman on the otherside where he sort of he’s got his gun. in the middle of the fight scene and he goes and grabs the candy bar.That was improvised. He just wanted a candy bar. But it’s nice. But it kept him that him doing that kepthim in the film longer than they would have kept him in. They killed him off later. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that’s good. I mean, II like that all the the the small characters have little bits as well to make them individuals. You know, whenthe um turning the power off, it could have very easily, you could have very easilygone to that guy who’s down the shaft, you know, all in the manhole,elevator shaft. No, no, no. In the manhole, you know, the guy who’s going to turn the power off, the worker guy. Yeah.Um it could be very easy for him to say, “The power off.” And he goes, “Okay.” And then he’s like, “No, my boss is going to kill And then, you know, they have this whole they give that characterway more time than he needs, like to sort of show that he’s a real person and that he goes, “No, I’ll, you know, I’ll lose myjob or whatever.” And then I like all those little moments where especially with, you know, like thework, the office work as well, the guy doing cocaine. you know everything you need to know about that guy fromfrom from his first interaction the way he interacts with the boss mannerisms all of his things the way he’s gettingrestless throughout the whole thing and he’s just like a I just want to end this you know how he is justjust the wrong guy for this this occasion and I think quite economical again yeah but I I think I don’t think thereis a character that doesn’t there isn’t a character that doesn’t have a glimpseof um personality Yeah, like the limo driver’s got bags, but even, you know, the guy going to the safe, he’s got he’she’s, you know, he’s he’s almost like the main other villain in a way cuz he they cut to him so often cuz he’sdrilling through the things and he’s got quippy long liners and things like that. Yeah. No, it’s good.Yeah. Good film. Good Christmas film. I admit it. Ah,Dave’s not going to be happy with me. Give me three. Give me three ho hos for that. Ho ho ho. Lovely.Where do we rate this on a scale of the three ones that we’ve done so far? Home Alone, Elf, and Die Hard.Um, well, as a Christmas film, I would probably I’d probably still putboth Elf and Home Alone above it. Okay. So, you do agree with me then? No, I think Die Hard is a much betterfilm than both of those films. I think Die Hard as films go as I think Die Hard is like tight. There’s there’s notreally even though it’s you say it’s long there’s everything works in it. Yeah. In terms ofto the goal films in terms of a script and everything else filming and yeahI think I think it is like a much better film than both those films. But I do think that if I was being completelyhonest myself I would probably put on Elf or Home Alone before Die Hard.Yeah. But I but equally I I would only kind of watch Die Hard at Christmas now. I sort of have I think the only three timesI’ve watched it is all bit of Christmas time. So I think it’s it has it’s definitely entered there but I don’tthink it’s I don’t think it’s like a it’s only taken 30 years 35 years to do that. Yeah. I think it takes away you’ve got to takeaway some points just because like you can’t watch it with your kids or Yeah. Yeah. It’s going to be a whileuntil I show the uh die hard. She’s already seen it. You need to see this. Sit down and watchthis with me. He’s bad. That’s why he’s falling from a building now. And if you’re bad, you’ll fall from a building.Poor way to end. Um, so was it to to mark that occasion? I’vegot a gun for We have a gift for you as well.Oh, that is Fenora. Oh, for Nora.Well, I’ll put this on my lap for your outro. There you go. It’s kind of for me, isn’tit? Yeah, it’s for you. Yeah, she can she can play with it sometimes when I when she’s old enough to understand it.Thank you guys. That’s very kind. That’s all right. She’ll love it. So, thank you for joining us for thisepisode of the Education Lounge podcast. Thank you for Andrew for joining us on this andsharing some brilliant facts about Die Hard along with Prager for putting them together. If you want to watch some morecontent related to Christmas, click here. Some real Christmas films andyippy kay mother.The Education Lounge podcast.